Why are Some Professors Unfair in Grading?

[Cyrus]

i luve this thread

really i do

marlon

You just luve me.

 

[marlon]

You just luve me.

I'd luve to see you gettin' banned

 

[Cyrus]

I'd luve to see you gettin' banned

No problem, bend over.

 

[tribdog]

Could be I am misreading something, but I think rootX stated that he doesn't care about other peoples marks as long as they are deserved, not got because marking scheme is such that half of the class gets an A no matter whether they know something or not. That's not greed, that's feeling of unjustice.

Why care what grades other people are getting? In grade school my report cards came in a sealed envelope and it was nobody else's business what grade I got.

 

[Office_Shredder]

Because in college your report cards don't come in a sealed envelope, and it is other people's business what grades you get.

 

[symbolipoint]

Moonbear, Rootx, others(?),

The teacher or professor might not be instructing thoroughly enough, or maybe certain students want more complete lessons and more thorough assignments since they are concerned with more features of the course than the instructor is addressing; difficult to know for sure. Only the instructor could answer this unless one of us could observe and follow what actually happened in that class. Also, some instructors might be trying to arrange things so that more students can pass (although not sure that this is what he attempted here). I have already seen some of this as a student. Really difficult to say, so not sure we have enough facts to make a judgement.

Ask this: did the instructor deal with most or all of the official course's objectives? Did he test for most or all of those course objectives?

 

[rootX]

Moonbear, Rootx, others(?),

The teacher or professor might not be instructing thoroughly enough, or maybe certain students want more complete lessons and more thorough assignments since they are concerned with more features of the course than the instructor is addressing; difficult to know for sure. Only the instructor could answer this unless one of us could observe and follow what actually happened in that class. Also, some instructors might be trying to arrange things so that more students can pass (although not sure that this is what he attempted here). I have already seen some of this as a student. Really difficult to say, so not sure we have enough facts to make a judgement.

Ask this: did the instructor deal with most or all of the official course's objectives? Did he test for most or all of those course objectives?

He's a new professor, and I think he does covers the objectives but by very minimum. But, I don't like him because he doesn't motivate students to look beyond what students get in the class(L.Ns and assignments).
Recently, he gave us a major assignment in which he asked for a derivation that is completely solved in the book. I would be happier if he puts little more effort in coming up with questions that require some little more thinking...

 

[tribdog]

You don't have to stop with what he assigns. If you want to do a harder problem, go ahead and do a harder problem. assign yourself double the amount of homework your teacher asks for. Just don't expect the rest of the class to have to do the same.

 

[Cyrus]

Because in college your report cards don't come in a sealed envelope, and it is other people's business what grades you get.

...what?

 

[Office_Shredder]

...what?

I'm applying for grad school. There's this crazy thing they want called a transcript

 

[Moonbear]

But, I don't like him because he doesn't motivate students to look beyond what students get in the class(L.Ns and assignments).

I hate to break it to you, but that's the student's job to motivate themselves to learn beyond what's taught in the class. Nobody is stopping you from going a step further on your own.

Because in college your report cards don't come in a sealed envelope, and it is other people's business what grades you get.

Huh? Report cards sure are sent out sealed, and are nobody's business but yours...and perhaps a future employer...but your future employer doesn't see what the rest of the class got, so still, there's no reason to care what your classmates get.

 

[Moonbear]

I'm applying for grad school. There's this crazy thing they want called a transcript

Yep, sent in a SEALED envelope, and NOT visible to anyone but the people you want to see it. It's not being posted in the hallway for your classmates to see.

 

[Borek]

but your future employer doesn't see what the rest of the class got, so still, there's no reason to care what your classmates get.

I think that's not entirely true - if future employer takes grades into account and others have the same grades even if they know less - there is a reason to care, as your chances of getting a good first job are diluted.

 

[Moonbear]

I think that's not entirely true - if future employer takes grades into account and others have the same grades even if they know less - there is a reason to care, as your chances of getting a good first job are diluted.

Have you ever had an employer ask to see your grades or transcript? I never have.

 

[Topher925]

Have you ever had an employer ask to see your grades or transcript? I never have.

I have. My first employer out of college wanted to see them along with one of my internships.

But usually as long as you have a GPA of 3.0+ then no one really cares.

 

[Cyrus]

I'm applying for grad school. There's this crazy thing they want called a transcript

Read Moonbears reply.

 

[noumed]

Have you ever had an employer ask to see your grades or transcript? I never have.

Usually they do if you're fresh out of college and had no prior technical work experience. But what do I know, I'm on my first job =]

 

[tribdog]

Usually they do if you're fresh out of college and had no prior technical work experience. But what do I know, I'm on my first job =]

But do they ask to also see the grades of everyone else in your classes to make sure your teacher didn't give tests that were too easily passed? Which is what the original post concerns.

 

[noumed]

But do they ask to also see the grades of everyone else in your classes to make sure your teacher didn't give tests that were too easily passed? Which is what the original post concerns.

Of course not. What others get shouldn't affect your grade in the class. I guess I can understand the concern if you live or die by the curve. Your grades on your transcript might land you that interview, but ultimately it's what you know that will land you the job.

 

[Moonbear]

Of course not. What others get shouldn't affect your grade in the class. I guess I can understand the concern if you live or die by the curve. Your grades on your transcript might land you that interview, but ultimately it's what you know that will land you the job.

Exactly.

 

[Borek]

Your grades on your transcript might land you that interview, but ultimately it's what you know that will land you the job.

Which doesn't change the fact that your chances are diluted.

I am a member of a mail list for chemistry teachers, and I have heard stories about grades inflation happening now and then, for various reasons. While curve is not always the best approach, there is something wrong with grading if people that are nicely curved in other curses got 50% A's in a particular class.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

Which doesn't change the fact that your chances are diluted.

I am a member of a mail list for chemistry teachers, and I have heard stories about grades inflation happening now and then, for various reasons. While curve is not always the best approach, there is something wrong with grading if people that are nicely curved in other curses got 50% A's in a particular class.

I don't think it's so much that there's something wrong with grading, it's just that a school or course is not a measuring device like a thermometer or scale. Grades and even the administration of exams are completely secondary to the purpose of learning.

It's like, imagine a one-player video game that's very entertaining, but you don't always get the exact same amount of points for executing the same action. (Or there are no points at all - there are games like that!) If you get really obsessed or conflicted about the point scoring system I think you're kind of missing the point of the video game.

But I do say kudos to you as a teacher for putting the professional polish on your courses of a nice, consistent grading system. (And I'm saying that as someone who has primarily been a student and consumer of courses rather than a teacher.)

⚛​

 

[mhill]

I really don't understand why people always like easy stuff and high rewards. They also want big cars and high salaries when they graduate ...

QUOTE]


Because, in the end is what really matters.. i have a degree on Physics (Solid state) but my scores were too low for getting a grant so i had to work in Pizza Hut, and similar places

people usually are only concerned about getting a 'title' whatever it was to get a well-paid job , society is made like this , if you are interested in a subject but can not pass the exam and get the title then you have NOTHING

 

[CaptainQuasar]

In the end, big cars and high salaries are what really matter? Y'know, I think that this Christmas you may be visited by three spirits.

⚛​

 

[Borek]

I don't think it's so much that there's something wrong with grading, it's just that a school or course is not a measuring device like a thermometer or scale. Grades and even the administration of exams are completely secondary to the purpose of learning.

But they should reflect the effect. If not - what are they for?

But I agree that what you have in head is much more important, I know people that had low grades but I trust their knowledge, and I know PhD chemist that don't know how to convert between percentage and molarity. Trick is, someone that doesn't know these people and can assess them mostly by lookin into papers can do a grave mistake.

But I do say kudos to you as a teacher for putting the professional polish on your courses of a nice, consistent grading system. (And I'm saying that as someone who has primarily been a student and consumer of courses rather than a teacher.)

For the record: I am not teaching.

 

[Moonbear]

But I agree that what you have in head is much more important, I know people that had low grades but I trust their knowledge, and I know PhD chemist that don't know how to convert between percentage and molarity. Trick is, someone that doesn't know these people and can assess them mostly by lookin into papers can do a grave mistake.

But I think that's more a problem of their hiring practices. It's sort of like an employer dismissing a graduate of a "lesser" college as not as good as one from a bigger name university. And, grading at every university and in every course varies slightly, so grades really aren't of much hiring value anyway. All they're really good for is to check that someone actually passed their courses and got the degree they claim they got.

If an employer bases the majority of their decision on grades or school names, then they deserve the lousy employees they get.

 

[Office_Shredder]

If an employer bases the majority of their decision on grades or school names, then they deserve the lousy employees they get.

Strawman. I don't care if the company that doesn't hire me fails, I care about getting a job.

 

[CaptainQuasar]

But they should reflect the effect. If not - what are they for?

They're an attempt to make it easy for a school to decide whether it's going to grant a diploma and certify the student as educated. The entire exercise boils down to a single pass / fail grade in the end... that's why I don't think it's really necessary for grading systems to be any more than approximately similar between courses and why I don't think that employers or graduate admissions programs should act as if grades are all that precise or perfectly fair.

It would certainly be nice for students, as a feedback loop, if their grade could indicate the efficacy of their studying efforts down to the hundredth of a decimal point... but part of the learning process is to become capable of self-assessment - to become able to know what you know and figure out where your own understanding is inadequate and requires study. (In the case of your PhD chemist who can't do basic tasks, it seems as though some measure of self-assessment capability has escaped him or her.)

⚛​

 

[Moonbear]

Strawman. I don't care if the company that doesn't hire me fails, I care about getting a job.

It's not a strawman, it's a separate statement of fact. The point is, it's not going to affect you getting a job, because that's not what employers are looking at. You people are WAY too worried about grades, and especially OTHER people's grades. Life isn't always fair according everyone's individual definitions of fair. Get over it.

 

[Andre]

I've been helping 'hiring' people for my 'company', the Air Force. The ability to learn data and tricks is nice, but what really counts is motivation, i ability to observe, analyse and conclude about things that are not in a textbook, taking initiatives, working independently, being stable, not getting upset easily and above all, being a team player.