Why Are We Wasting Energy on Idiotic Practices?

[JasonRox]

Many areas now cycle the street lights off for periods of time so that out of any four lights, for example, at any time, one of them is off.

One thing that annoys me is the energy wasted by refrigerators. In the summer, we run the fridge which then blows hot air that has to be cooled again by the air conditioner. In the winter, we heat house, which in turn puts a greater load on the fridge. The condenser coil should be cooled using air from under or outside of the house, and exhuasted out again. I had the chance to implement this idea in new modular [steel] homes, but the company making them just went bankrupt.

Now that's a valid thing to argue. Or the heat the fridge produces can help warm the water... who knows. I'm no engineer.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I also think that that new homes could be designed to utilize ground temperature sinking and sourcing for climate control. They are doing this with the active systems [heat pumps], but it seems to me that a semi-passive system might work well during some months of the year, and in areas having a relatively mild climate.

 

[Cyrus]

Cyrus,

Your arguments are good, but they aren't original ideas. Out here in Cali, at least, sustainability is a major economic driver. (Paradoxically, the green movement actually creates more jobs and grows the total economy and infrastructure, making the problem... worse. But, I digress. At least they mean well.)

I'd say about half of the people out here use canvas bags for groceries. Plastic grocery bags are banned in San Francisco, and other communities are sure to follow. Most grocery stores charge you for using their bags (or, equivalently, they give you a discount for using your own).

Sustainable landscaping is huge out here. Everyone wants to use native plants for ground-cover and decoration. These plants thrive in the natural environment here, need no irrigation or maintenance, and in many cases are very pretty. My girlfriend is a commercial real estate developer, with an emphasis on sustainable design and operations, so I hear quite a lot about this.

I have to take issue with some of the things being said about street lights, though. The truth is that lighting and crime are not directly related. The International Dark Sky Association, a group focusing on light pollution and its effect on astronomical research, has done countless studies on crime that corroborate this fact.

I also have a big problem with disposable plastic water bottles, since a reusable metal bottle is almost always a better choice. Many people have a misconception that using a plastic bottle, then recycling it, is pretty much the same as not having ever used it at all.

- Warren

Oh, I'm not claiming originality to my ideas. I'm just ranting about things I notice.

Point 5

SUVs. You don't need to drive your kids in one to soccer practice. No one did in the 80s/early 90s. Did kids suddenly become 10x bigger? There should be a law that states to get an SUV you must show a NEED for one and get a special license (Like a truck license) since people who have them don't seem to know how to drive.

SUV drives who don't have a need for one should get a special tax.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Did kids suddenly become 10x bigger?

Yes. See Supersize Me.

There should be a law that states to get an SUV you must show a NEED for one and get a special license (Like a truck license) since people who have them don't seem to know how to drive.

SUV drives who don't have a need for one should get a special tax.

I keep telling you guys the way to kill SUVs. Regulate them [say any vehicle over 3000 or 4000 Lbs] like heavy trucks and require that they drive at 55 mph in the rightmost lanes. If you have ever been next to one of those $50K monsters while driving a Corolla, the logic in such a law is immediately obvious - SUVs and other large vehicles are dangerous to those of us who choose make responsible automobile purchases. I shouldn't have to put my life in imminent jeopardy in order to drive a high-mileage vehicle.

 

[Cyrus]

I keep telling you guys the way to kill SUVs. Regulate them like heavy trucks and require that they drive at 55 mph in the rightmost lanes.

WRONG: The correct answer is run people you see driving SUVs off the road. BYE BYEE

 

[Ivan Seeking]

WRONG: The correct answer is run people you see driving SUVs off the road. BYE BYEE

Cyrus, are you a nut or do you just like to pretend to be one?

 

[JasonRox]

WRONG: The correct answer is run people you see driving SUVs off the road. BYE BYEE

 

[turbo]

WRONG: The correct answer is run people you see driving SUVs off the road. BYE BYEE

Ah, yes! Vigilante in a Corolla tries to run a Hummer off the highway. Occupants of Corolla: "Aiee!" (crumple of metal and crackle of flames) Occupants of Hummer: "Honey, did you feel something back there?"

 

[Pupil]

Today's rant is on energy consumption, and what I view to be idiotic consumer/societal practices.

Point 1:

The mail. I get lots of crap in the mail. Every day, I get mail for deals on Pizza, lawn care, Value Packs, Credit Cards, Insurance. I throw away nearly half of my mail every day. All this crap goes straight to trash. More to the point, all this crap takes a lot of energy to make and print on that nice glossy paper. A lot of chemicals go into those nice vibrant inks - that wind up straight in the recycling bin. On top of that, all that crap has to get trucked around by the mail man.

So, we wasted energy:
-Making It
-Shipping It
-My Energy throwing it away
-More energy to Recycle it

How about not sending this crap out to begin with! I never signed up for any of this, why are they even sending it. Make a law against it!

The other points I could see a debate for, but the first point I totally agree with. I hate going to the mailbox to find 80% of my mail is glossy, bright, flashy ads screaming "BUY NOW!" Then walking up to my front door to see a bunch of ads dangling from my door handle and littering the ground around my doorstep. Now I have to weed out the ads in my mail and clean up the small junk yard of ads accumulated throughout the day by what looks like an army of jackasses taking bets on how much crap they can fit by my door. It's insane. I never read the ads. No one I know ever reads the ads. You know what I do when I want to go somewhere to eat or to buy product X? I go to the internet and find out what the best reviewed/priced store is or check out a place a friend told me about. I do a few quick Google searches or rely on word of mouth, I don't read the hundreds of shiny ads being stuffed down my throat.

Oh, and if I'm gone for a few days, I can be sure any thiefs would know, too. The four day old pile of ads on my door step will tell them all about it. Thanks generic Italian pizza place!

Screw you, Cyrus. Got me all worked up and pissed off.

 

[cristo]

Right, all posts triggered by one insult have now been removed. If insults/"sarcasm" continue, then more punitive action will be taken.

 

[Cyrus]

Hooary its back!

Hmmmm, I've exhausted things to rant about concerning energy. I'll think of something later when it strikes me.

 

[Pengwuino]

Yes. See Supersize Me.

Damn it you beat me to it!

As for the street lights, hell, what Fresno does is they just turned every other street light off. Simple. WIN. It seems like a lot of conservation efforts remind me of the story (true or not) of the US and USSR developing a pen that could write in space. The US is the environmentalists making a bunch of complicated BS while I, the USSR, make simple WIN. No one wants to just face the reality of nuking large population centers. Sigh.

 

[Cyrus]

Damn it you beat me to it!

As for the street lights, hell, what Fresno does is they just turned every other street light off. Simple. WIN. It seems like a lot of conservation efforts remind me of the story (true or not) of the US and USSR developing a pen that could write in space. The US is the environmentalists making a bunch of complicated BS while I, the USSR, make simple WIN. No one wants to just face the reality of nuking large population centers. Sigh.

I'm all for nuking your community.

 

[Cyrus]

Hahhaa, that pictures so funny. But you don't get the reference to the joke in my post, which was for Ivan.

 

[FredGarvin]

I thought Al Gore created the paperless society right after he invented the internet.

I'd like to start saving the planet by sacrificing the annoying wench that insists on leaving Avon catalogs in my mail box.

 

[Topher925]

I hate people that go out of there way to not recycle. At my apt. complex we have 5 recycling bins about 20 feet in front of the garbage dumpster. I always see people walking the extra 20 feet to through paper away instead of recycling it. Next time I see someone doing it, I'm going to punch them in the face.

 

[Huckleberry]

I have to take issue with some of the things being said about street lights, though. The truth is that lighting and crime are not directly related. The International Dark Sky Association, a group focusing on light pollution and its effect on astronomical research, has done countless studies on crime that corroborate this fact.

- Warren

I was wondering about this. I think criminals are just as afraid of being blind as everyone else, or at least as inconvenienced by it. (Oh no, I can't see. Something must be after me!) As a night owl myself I've learned to avoid people who hang out under street lights at night. Sometimes in the middle of the night I'll be driving around town and have to check to see if my headlights are on. There is a lot of energy being spent to light up empty streets so people 'feel' safer. I believe its largest contribution is to people's paranoia.

@Cyrus,
Yeah, all that junk mail is a huge waste. The quantity of it is annoying also.

When I was living in Arizona I never understood why so many people wanted grass lawns. I can understand it if it is a region where grass grows naturally and has water to spare, but not in the desert. They picked the wrong place to live if they need green lawns and AC for 3/4ths of the year.

I fear that the whole world will become LA, though it looks like most of the world is smarter than the US. What, you mean I can't just buy a clean environment?!?

 

[Mech_Engineer]

It seems to me that many water "shortages" are pretty much artificial and/or self-inflicted... In California all it takes is a few dozen gigantic (possibly nuclear) desalination plants and voila! No more water shortage. For inland spots, canals.

In my opinion everything comes back to energy and how the heck do we make enough of it (I have my own opinions on the matter). With enough energy available, pretty much anything is achievable; including turning a desert city like Phoenix into a lush garden oasis with palm trees and grass.

 

[RonL]

If anyone wants to cut down on their water bill a little, they can redirect the condensation from the AC unit and pipe it into a water barrel, then use it to water plants or fill all those things around the yard, like bird baths and water ponds.

 

[Argentum Vulpes]

For junk mail just black out your address and write return to sender. Utterly pointless but I still get a chuckle every time I do it.

As for mowing you grass how about getting a nice new reel mower. I have about a quarter of an acer to mow and I can get it done in about 15 min using my reel mower.

As for trees I'm in an older section of the town I live in so I'm surrounded by large trees, my front yard gets about an hour of direct sun at about noon and my back yard is in constant deep shade. It's all just a matter of where you live.

 

[Moonbear]

Many areas now cycle the street lights off for periods of time so that out of any four lights, for example, at any time, one of them is off.

One thing that annoys me is the energy wasted by refrigerators. In the summer, we run the fridge which then blows hot air that has to be cooled again by the air conditioner. In the winter, we heat house, which in turn puts a greater load on the fridge. The condenser coil should be cooled using air from under or outside of the house, and exhuasted out again. I had the chance to implement this idea in new modular [steel] homes, but the company making them just went bankrupt.

I'm not sure if having less street lights really helps unless you're already in an unpopulated area. I live on a block without any street lights, so everyone just has spotlights over the front door and garage, and most leave them on all night. I don't...I have my garage lights on a motion sensor that only operated dusk to dawn, but if I could figure out a way to connect them to a remote control, I think I'd prefer that. I just need to leave them on since it's too dark for me to even find the front door knob to insert the key if I come in after dark and prefer not leaving the front door light on all day long, which doesn't have a motion sensor. If I had a remote control I could keep in the car, then I could turn them on when I pull in the driveway.

I'm installing some solar charged path lights...that might help enough not to need to leave the garage lights on at all.

As for refrigerators, it never made sense to me that most people's kitchens are designed so the refrigerator is along an interior wall when it could be placed against an exterior wall, and then the kitchen sink is along an exterior wall even in older houses with lousy insulation where the sink plumbing freezes every winter.

 

[turbo]

As for refrigerators, it never made sense to me that most people's kitchens are designed so the refrigerator is along an interior wall when it could be placed against an exterior wall, and then the kitchen sink is along an exterior wall even in older houses with lousy insulation where the sink plumbing freezes every winter.

I can't count the number of rat-hole apartment that I have lived in where the fridge was right next to the range/oven. What are you supposed to do? Turn them both on and let them fight it out? Duh.

 

[Cyrus]

I hate people that go out of there way to not recycle. At my apt. complex we have 5 recycling bins about 20 feet in front of the garbage dumpster. I always see people walking the extra 20 feet to through paper away instead of recycling it. Next time I see someone doing it, I'm going to punch them in the face.

You should man, you should.

 

[Cyrus]

I can't count the number of rat-hole apartment that I have lived in where the fridge was right next to the range/oven. What are you supposed to do? Turn them both on and let them fight it out? Duh.

That made me laugh out loud.

 

[Cyrus]

Ooo, I have another rant brewing, should I make a thread for it? It's a good one too, it's about facebook.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Here is one that an old biology teacher of mine used to rant about: He got sick of seeing the money and amount of hardware dedicated to yard maintenance, so he formed a neighborhood coop for yard tools. There is no reason why every household needs a mower, edger, chain saw, etc. What's more, they had a greater selection of tools and equipment than they would have had otherwise.

 

[Phrak]

I'd like to start saving the planet by sacrificing the annoying wench that insists on leaving Avon catalogs in my mail box.

That would be my wife. Every sort of ungent, potion, lotion, cream, salve and balm with promises to make you more beautfuller.

Tempting, ain't it?

 

[Pengwuino]

Here is one that an old biology teacher of mine used to rant about: He got sick of seeing the money and amount of hardware dedicated to yard maintenance, so he formed a neighborhood coop for yard tools. There is no reason why every household needs a mower, edger, chain saw, etc. What's more, they had a greater selection of tools and equipment than they would have had otherwise.

Unless you live in Arlen and live in Hank Hill's neighborhood where its a competition as to who has the best mower . Or of course, in a more concrete example, where you don't trust your neighbors... Also, there's not too too many items that you could form a coop for. A chainsaw and edger and hoes (giggle) work easily with this idea, but certain things might not work considering a lot of people like doing their yardwork on saturday or sunday mornings. What I mean is that you'd have to tell people they need to do their work at different times depending on how few mowers or rakes you want to purchase.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Unless you live in Arlen and live in Hank Hill's neighborhood where its a competition as to who has the best mower . Or of course, in a more concrete example, where you don't trust your neighbors... Also, there's not too too many items that you could form a coop for. A chainsaw and edger and hoes (giggle) work easily with this idea, but certain things might not work considering a lot of people like doing their yardwork on saturday or sunday mornings. What I mean is that you'd have to tell people they need to do their work at different times depending on how few mowers or rakes you want to purchase.

I know that he did it for years. Granted, it couldn't be done in all neighborhoods, but for many people it may be a practical option. As for timing, that's were the cooperation part comes in. Also, it depends on the individual and the home, but there are probably dozens of tools that would be nice to have, but the expense is not justified because they are rarely used. If you spread the need among twenty or thirty homes, an abundance of nice tools makes sense.

For a time we lived in another area and had a very large lawn to mow, so I cut a deal with the neighbor and used his riding mower. It was a win/win. I spend far less money than I would have spent on a mower, and he made money from something that got used once a week.

This might even be considered a business opportunity for people looking for a little extra income. The idea would be that a small income could be derived by the person who stores, maintains, and signs out the equipment.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I have to take issue with some of the things being said about street lights, though. The truth is that lighting and crime are not directly related. The International Dark Sky Association, a group focusing on light pollution and its effect on astronomical research, has done countless studies on crime that corroborate this fact.

Umm... I'm going to have to look that up.
I do know that working as a security guard I would be a lot less effective in my job if I couldn't see anything and no one could see me.

I hate people that go out of there way to not recycle. At my apt. complex we have 5 recycling bins about 20 feet in front of the garbage dumpster. I always see people walking the extra 20 feet to through paper away instead of recycling it. Next time I see someone doing it, I'm going to punch them in the face.

At one of the complexs I work at they just recently put in recycling bins next to the trash bins. I'm fairly certain that no one really understands that one is for recycling.

 

[Phrak]

Horrah for the collective and horrah for communal property where people will trash what is common, and hold dear what is theirs alone.

 

[ibnsos]

You could go down to the post office and sign up to be removed from the bulk mailing list. That should cut out most of the junk mail. Only down side is if you like to receive bulk mailings from the city, but I find if there's anything I want to know from them I can just check their website.

 

[WiFO215]

If Cyrus stopped making rant threads on PF that we all spend hours reading, how much electricity would that save? Energy waste would drop down to nothing...

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I have to take issue with some of the things being said about street lights, though. The truth is that lighting and crime are not directly related. The International Dark Sky Association, a group focusing on light pollution and its effect on astronomical research, has done countless studies on crime that corroborate this fact.

You mean this?
http://www.asv.org.au/odlighting/node1.html

I haven't read the whole thing but what I have read seems to be biased at least to some degree.

They attack the notion that street lighting in and of itself reduces crime. While there may be individuals such as city planners and sellers of lights that have an interest in the subject who propose such an idea it is really rather irresponsible to begin with. At best you can say that greater street lighting aids in crime prevention. It seems illogical to go to lengths to refute a proposition that is already rather irresponsible except that they seem to take advantage of this for the purpose of their arguement.

This really shows when they refer to incidents where there was a negative association (more light, less crime) as being inconclusive due to the likelihood that other factors contributed to the decrease in crime. In a bit I just finished reading they cited a dramatically increased visible presence of police officers (from survey data) as the more likely reason for a decrease in crime rate for a particular area than the increase in light. They seemingly ignore the idea that the increased light may be responsible for this statistic rather than an actual increase in the number of officers. They supply no evidence that there were in fact more police officers and even state that they are ignorant of any such factors twisting this to their own ends by stating that we must accept it as a possible alternate explanation since the information does not exist. Visibility is an officers greatest asset for deterence and they completely ignore this.

When citing possible effects of greater light they seem to focus on the help it may give to criminals in commiting crimes and down play the number of possible positive effects to reducing crime. Particularly they like to point out that daylight does not seem to reduce crime since a significant amount of crime occurs during the day. They again seem to ignore conventional wisdom on the subject, the circumstances of daylight crime are much different than crime at night. The facilitating factors that exist during the day which decrease the liability of ones visibility do not exist at night.

One of the funniest bits is a study done in Baltimore they cite. Apparently they increased lighting and law enforement presence in the downtown areas and found that while crime decreased in the area where lighting was increased the over all crime rate stayed approximately the same. They call this 'crime displacement' and try to show that this means there really was no effect on the crime rate. Of course they point out a real problem with the execution of this plan to lower crime but they simultaniously ignore the fact that apparently crime was in fact reduced in the area where they increased the lighting which is probably because it contradicts their assertion that criminals do not care about light conditions.

I'll stop ranting about this. I haven't looked for studys which may show lighting helps yet, which I should do. I am fairly certain I have at least heard that lighting around ATMs at night significantly reduces night time robberys at ATMs. I'll start with that.

 

[Huckleberry]

It seems to me that many water "shortages" are pretty much artificial and/or self-inflicted... In California all it takes is a few dozen gigantic (possibly nuclear) desalination plants and voila! No more water shortage. For inland spots, canals.

In my opinion everything comes back to energy and how the heck do we make enough of it (I have my own opinions on the matter). With enough energy available, pretty much anything is achievable; including turning a desert city like Phoenix into a lush garden oasis with palm trees and grass.

There isn't an infinite amount of energy available to us. Any process that uses less energy to achieve the same goal should be implemented. Available resources should be used with foresight and ethical consideration. Any byproduct in the consumption of energy must be weighed against the value of what is being achieved with it.

Yes, we can create oasis cities if we want to. The consequences are air pollution and a dry Colorado River. The wildlife along the Colorado is threatened and there is little left of the Colorado river available for use by the citizens of Mexico. I don't believe we have done it by being responsible with the resources available to us. I don't think most of that water goes to people's lawns or anything. I'm just pointing out that using a resource in one place denies its use to another, and the US is the biggest hog on the farm. With such a large quantity of the world's resources available to us it is easy to overlook a personal responsibility towards its use. There's more to consider than just how much energy is available if we want to use resources responsibly.

 

[Huckleberry]

I'll stop ranting about this. I haven't looked for studys which may show lighting helps yet, which I should do. I am fairly certain I have at least heard that lighting around ATMs at night significantly reduces night time robberys at ATMs. I'll start with that.

The cameras don't work so well in the dark.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Well apparently there is not a government funded study on ATM robberies. The banks do them and their stats apparently do not distinguish between robberies and other sorts of ATM related crimes.

Also all of articles I found in a quick search reference the same studies referenced in the paper by the ASV. I did however find a guide for police published by the DOJ...
http://www.cops.usdoj.gov/files/RIC/Publications/e1208-StreetLighting.pdf
It also references the same studies but it will give you an idea of how they have responded to those studies and the sort of advice they give based on them. They pretty much advise that increased lighting can be a useful element in a crime prevention strategy for some areas. Yes, some. They were just as capable as the ASV of recognizing the instances in the studies where increased lighting was accompanied by increases in crime. So they suggest that police carefully examine the particular circumstances of any given situation to determine whether or not added lighting will in fact be a help. They also do not advocate increased lighting as a crime prevention strategy in and of itself.

 

[Borek]

I believe I have read in London crime was 'displaced' after city cameras were mounted. While that's not exactly what you are looking for, it can be an interesting addendum.

 

[JaredJames]

The UK has the most cameras per person than any other country. Yet we also have a relatively 'average' crime rate. People don't care so much about them, given the quality is so poor it is rare you can identify a person from anything other than the clothes they have on. If you don't catch them at the time/there after, you won't get them. Cameras do have nightvision setups in some cases (mostly private), but most cctv rely on street lighting to allow them to see. Watch any police programme (one that follows police or shows actual footage) and you will see whenever cctv is used (day or night) it is not in nightvision and requires the street lights (seriously reducing its usefulness), it is usually only used to confirm how something happened in those cases or who is at fault. You could not get any reliable information (number plates) from the cameras themselves.

 

[Chi Meson]

You are part of the problem. Be a part of the solution and die.

And if you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the precipitate.I saw somewhere on this prestigious intraweb of ours, a chart that showed the obscene amount of energy that is wasted through nothing more than "standby" currents through those transformer boxes, and TV/Computer monitors in standby mode. I heard a rumor that essentially two coal burning power plants are running full time, feeding into the grid electricity that ends up as heat due to standby "ghost" or "vampire" currents.

 

[JaredJames]

And if you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the precipitate.


I saw somewhere on this prestigious intraweb of ours, a chart that showed the obscene amount of energy that is wasted through nothing more than "standby" currents through those transformer boxes, and TV/Computer monitors in standby mode. I heard a rumor that essentially two coal burning power plants are running full time, feeding into the grid electricity that ends up as heat due to standby "ghost" or "vampire" currents.

There was a tv programme (watchdog or something, one of the tidy UK ones) which plugged a Sony tv into a power monitor and then the mains. They tested it in the on position and standby, both pulled the same amount of power. Shocking. Seeing as that is what most people leave them on. They tested others as well, none as bad as the Sony but a lot using far more than 50% of 'on' power.

 

[Pengwuino]

I know that he did it for years. Granted, it couldn't be done in all neighborhoods, but for many people it may be a practical option. As for timing, that's were the cooperation part comes in. Also, it depends on the individual and the home, but there are probably dozens of tools that would be nice to have, but the expense is not justified because they are rarely used. If you spread the need among twenty or thirty homes, an abundance of nice tools makes sense.

Oh! Better idea! Have a coop with all tools period (aka stuff you'd see in a garage). Things like screw drivers, drills, levels, saws, pretty much anything home depot sells/rents . It's great because using stuff like that is far far more random and needed less often then garden equipment but you still always need to have that kind of stuff around. I know I've seen lots of tools I'd love to have but were too expensive for the one or two times I figure i'd really need it...

 

[turbo]

Oh! Better idea! Have a coop with all tools period (aka stuff you'd see in a garage). Things like screw drivers, drills, levels, saws, pretty much anything home depot sells/rents . It's great because using stuff like that is far far more random and needed less often then garden equipment but you still always need to have that kind of stuff around. I know I've seen lots of tools I'd love to have but were too expensive for the one or two times I figure i'd really need it...

My neighbors and I are pretty loose with tools. One guy has a well-equipped wood-working shop (planer, jointer, table saw, miter/chop saw, etc) and a very large band-saw-mill. Another guy has torches and welders, hoists, etc. I have lots of electronic tools and testers and can pitch in with residential wiring, vehicle wiring, etc. I also have a lot of experience troubleshooting and fixing older gas-powered equipment We not only allow free access to one anothers' tools, if the person who wants to borrow tools needs personal skills, we provide that too. Both of my other neighbors are experienced backhoe operators. Now, I have a smaller tractor (28 hp diesel) that is more appropriate to some of the stuff that they need done (with less damage to property) and there are already some projects on my slate that I can do to keep "square" with them. We don't have to rely on communal property, etc, as long as we have generous cooperation.

 

[bassplayer142]

What about the phone book. I would guess that the only people who use them use 1% of them in their lifespan and they are old people not in touch with technology whatsoever. Google is your friend!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Here are a few easy ones that make a big difference: Keep your autos up to date on maintenance; avoid carrying unnecessary cargo in the trunk; check the pressure in the tires regularly. Just doing these three things can improve your mileage dramatically.

One of the easiest things that companies can do is to utilize telecommuting whenever possible. In fact, I would like to see a campaign that strongly encourages companies to do this. Perhaps a tax credit could even be justified according to the reduced loads on the highways and freeways.

Also, something that was phenomenally successful during the 1984 LA summer Olympics was a concerted effort to stagger work shifts at large facilities in order to prevent surge loads on the freeways. One great source of waste, both from an energy point of view as well as a productivity pov, is the time spent in bumper-to-bumper traffic. If companies and municipal entities cooperatively staggered work shifts so that not everyone commutes at the same time, this problem can be significantly improved. While we were expecting the worst in 1984, and while a number of approaches were used including begging people to use mass transit systems, the fact is that the Los Angeles freeways were the best that I have ever seen them. This was while the Olympics were under way! It was supposed to have been a nightmare, but one could drive almost anywhere in LA without getting stuck in traffic. It was simply remarkable to see what good planning could accomplish!

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Here are a few easy ones that make a big difference: Keep your autos up to date on maintenance; avoid carrying unnecessary cargo in the trunk; check the pressure in the tires regularly. Just doing these three things can improve your mileage dramatically.

One of the easiest things that companies can do is to utilize telecommuting whenever possible. In fact, I would like to see a campaign that strongly encourages companies to do this. Perhaps a tax credit could even be justified according to the reduced loads on the highways and freeways.

Also, something that was phenomenally successful during the 1984 LA summer Olympics was a concerted effort to stagger work shifts at large facilities in order to prevent surge loads on the freeways. One great source of waste, both from an energy point of view as well as a productivity pov, is the time spent in bumper-to-bumper traffic. If companies and municipal entities cooperatively staggered work shifts so that not everyone commutes at the same time, this problem can be significantly improved. While we were expecting the worst in 1984, and while a number of approaches were used including begging people to use mass transit systems, the fact is that the Los Angeles freeways were the best that I have ever seen them. This was while the Olympics were under way! It was supposed to have been a nightmare, but one could drive almost anywhere in LA without getting stuck in traffic. It was simply remarkable to see what good planning could accomplish!

There was a radio host I heard saying that he thought it would be preferable to have a 24/7 society and stagger work shifts over the entire twenty four hour period. Apparently though he found a study that says people who work at night tend to have poor health and it is thought to be caused by an 'unnatural' sleep schedule messing with circadian rythmes and lack of exposure to the sun.
Which is too bad because I would love to be able to get things done at night instead of having to wake up early or stay awake late.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

There was a radio host I heard saying that he thought it would be preferable to have a 24/7 society and stagger work shifts over the entire twenty four hour period. Apparently though he found a study that says people who work at night tend to have poor health and it is thought to be caused by an 'unnatural' sleep schedule messing with circadian rythmes and lack of exposure to the sun.
Which is too bad because I would love to be able to get things done at night instead of having to wake up early or stay awake late.

24/7 may be impractical for one because many businesses need to operate at full strength during normal business hours. But even spreading things out by a couple of hours on either end of the day can make a big difference. As for health problems... I have to chuckle a bit as my wife and I have worked late schedules for most of our adult lives. But I think it is true that not everyone can adjust to swing or graveyard shifts. Also, many companies already run around the clock, so changing the shift times would often be inconsequential.

There is generally a definite direction of traffic flow as a function of the time of day. The efficiency of intelligent scheduling could be maximized by analyzing traffic patterns, inferring the typical points of origin, and the destinations, and setting shift times according to the location of the company, whenever possible.

 

[Moonbear]

There is generally a definite direction of traffic flow as a function of the time of day. The efficiency of intelligent scheduling could be maximized by analyzing traffic patterns, inferring the typical points of origin, and the destinations, and setting shift times according to the location of the company, whenever possible.

Some of the larger employers in Cincinnati already do something like that. Rush hour gets prolonged, but at least it's just slow rather than stopped. Basically, each of the large employers staggers their shift ends by a half hour each, so one ends at 4:00, another 4:30, another 5:00.

 

[turbo]

The regimentation imposed by rigid start and stop times for work-places contributes greatly to congestion. In the little mill-town to the south of here, ALL the production teams get out at 3:00 PM, and with tourists trying to navigate the main highway through town, there are stop-and-go backups that can stretch for well over a mile. If that factory would start and end the work-day for their production lines on a staggered basis, there would be a lot fewer frayed nerves and delays. When you have to navigate through these little river-towns, you'd better plan your trips if you can, because every bridge is a bottle-neck that can only be avoided with long detours to other bridges.