Why Aren't Helium, Krypton, and Neon More Commonly Used in Incandescent Bulbs?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the use of helium, krypton, and neon in incandescent bulbs, exploring why helium is not more commonly utilized compared to other gases. Participants examine the properties of these gases, their behavior under high temperatures, and potential cost implications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why helium, despite being inert, is not preferred over krypton or argon for high-temperature incandescent bulbs.
  • One participant notes that helium can diffuse through thin glass walls, which could limit its usefulness in light bulbs.
  • A participant raises a question about the color produced by helium in bulbs, prompting a discussion about the type of bulbs being referenced.
  • It is mentioned that helium is harder to ionize compared to other gases.
  • Another participant suggests that heat capacity might influence the choice of gas, citing that argon is used in high-temperature instruments due to its ability to hold more heat than helium.
  • Cost considerations are brought up, with a participant questioning whether helium is more expensive than argon or krypton.
  • One participant references an experiment related to diffusion rates, indicating that helium diffuses faster than argon due to its lower molar mass, and mentions Graham's law in this context.
  • There is a request for references regarding how gas composition and thickness affect diffusion rates.
  • Participants discuss the availability of argon in the atmosphere, suggesting that its cost is lower compared to helium.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the practicality and efficiency of using helium in incandescent bulbs, with some agreeing on its limitations due to diffusion and cost, while others explore its properties without reaching a consensus on its overall utility.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various factors such as diffusion rates, heat capacity, and cost, but do not resolve how these factors definitively influence the choice of gases in incandescent bulbs.

Facial
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I have a question about helium :

If it is the most inert substance, why isn't it used more than krypton or argon for high-temperature incandescent bulbs?

I don't see neon in light bulbs too often either.
 
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Helium can diffuse through a thin glass wall, so it would escape from a light bulb (not very useful).
 
What would the color be with helium?
 
Would it matter? The OP was about incandescent, not fluorescent bulbs.
 
Helium is also much harder to ionize.
 
It might have something to do with heat capacity. High temperature instruments like ICPs use argon as the cooling gas because it can hold more heat than helium can (and take the heat away).
Might also have something to do with cost. Does helium cost more than argon or krypton?
 
rachmaninoff said:
Helium can diffuse through a thin glass wall, so it would escape from a light bulb (not very useful).

I suppose, then, that it can probably diffuse through a thick glass wall, but I'll have to look that up sometime with regards as to how much slower.
 
Facial said:
I suppose, then, that it can probably diffuse through a thick glass wall, but I'll have to look that up sometime with regards as to how much slower.
I did an experiment testing this last year. It turns out that effusion rates are proportional to molar mass (Graham's law?). If helium has a molar mass of something like 4 and krypton is way way up there in terms of mass, that's a considerable difference.
 
  • #10
Graham's law explains the relation between molar masses on the rate of diffusion. It should be the the inverse square root of the molar masses if I remember correctly, meaning Helium diffuses roughly 3.2 times as fast as argon (turns out that it has around 40 daltons of mass).

However, I need a reference on how 1) composition 2) thickness affect diffusion rates as well.
 
  • #11
ShawnD said:
Does helium cost more than argon or krypton?

For argon the answer must be yes. The atmosphere is about 0.7% argon (which is quite a bit if you think about it) by volume, meaning you can distill this gas right out of the air. The cost definitely makes sense here.
 

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