Why can coefficient "a" between spacetime intervals depend on velocity between systems?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the dependency of the coefficient "a" in the spacetime interval transformation on the relative velocity between inertial systems. Participants explore the implications of this dependency and the conditions under which it may or may not hold, referencing concepts from classical field theory and special relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why the coefficient "a" can depend on the absolute relative velocity between systems, suggesting that it could be a function of the magnitude of velocity, a = a(V).
  • Others argue that while "a" may depend on the magnitude of the velocity, it cannot depend on the direction of the velocity to maintain isotropy in space.
  • Several participants express confusion about the relationship between the coefficient "a" and the spacetime interval, seeking clarification on what "a" should depend on.
  • A participant notes that the reasoning in Landau & Lifshitz implies that "a" cannot depend on the magnitude of the relative velocity either, leading to further exploration of this claim.
  • Another participant references Wolfgang Rindler's work to support the idea that "a" must be constant, although this point is contested and not universally accepted in the discussion.
  • Some participants share their understanding of the topic and seek further clarification on specific mathematical concepts related to the transformation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the dependency of the coefficient "a" on relative velocity. There are multiple competing views regarding whether "a" can depend on the magnitude of velocity and the implications of such dependencies.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the assumptions underlying the dependency of "a" and the implications of isotropy in space. There are references to specific texts that may provide additional context, but the discussion remains focused on the interpretations and reasoning presented by participants.

  • #31
Sagittarius A-Star said:
  1. The absolute value of relative velocities is in both cases not ##4m/s##. If the individual velocities of your 4 frames refer to a certain unnamed inertial reference frame, then you must use the relativistic velocity addition formula.
  2. From equation ##(2.6)## in the scan in the OP (posting #1) follows ##ds_2^2=ds_1^2## and ##ds_3^2=ds_4^2##.
At first, I consider two frames:

Frame 1: 1m/s Frame 2: 5m/s; (1-5)m/s and (5-1)m/s => absolute value of relative velocity is 4m/s

Then, I consider another two frames:

Frame 3: 2m/s Frame 4: 6m/s; (2-6)m/s and (6-2)m/s =>absolute value of relative velocity is 4m/s

What's wrong?
 
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  • #32
Mike_bb said:
What's wrong?
Relative velocity means the velocity one thing measures the other to have. Here, you've calculated the velocity difference between two things as measured by a third party (someone at rest in the unnamed frame in which you specified the velocities of frames 1-4), which I usually call the separation rate. In Newtonian physics the separation rate and relative velocity are the same but not in relativity, and you need to use the relativistic velocity addition formula.

For such low velocities as 4m/s the error will be on the order of one part in ##10^{16}##, but it does mean that your two pairs of frames don't have the same relative velocities. I didn't mention this because it makes no difference to the discussion of your ##K##, which is entirely about choosing consistent units. But @Sagittarius A-Star is correct to note that frames 1 and 2 will not measure the other to have the same velocity that frames 3 and 4 will.

(Edit: e.g. imagine I measure object A to be doing +0.9c and object B to be doing -0.9c. The separation rate I measure is 1.8c, but this cannot be the velocity that A measures B to have since it exceeds ##c##. To get the speeds they measure I would use the relativistic velocity addition formula$$u'=\frac{u-v}{1-uv/c^2}$$which predicts that A and B would measure the other to be doing about 0.994c. But at the velocities you specified for your frames the ##uv/c^2## term is tiny so the relativistic formula becomes ##u'\approx u-v##, which is the Newtonian result you implicitly used.)
 
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