Why can't diodes with built-in potential be used as batteries?

  • Context: High School 
  • Thread starter Thread starter yinx
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Potential
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of why diodes, specifically the 1N4001 and zener diodes, cannot be used as batteries despite having a built-in potential. Participants explore the nature of built-in potential, its implications for current flow, and the thermodynamic principles involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the belief that diodes have built-in potential, prompting a discussion on the definition and implications of this term.
  • Another participant explains that the built-in potential arises from thermal energy and the behavior of electron-hole pairs in the silicon lattice, which creates an electric field that opposes current flow.
  • It is noted that to forward bias a diode, the applied potential must exceed the built-in potential, which is a barrier to current flow.
  • A distinction is made between built-in potential and contact potential, with some participants suggesting that these terms are often confused.
  • One participant expresses disappointment that no current flows when a circuit is closed with a diode, attributing this to thermodynamic principles that prevent energy extraction from nothing.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of a thermal engine, suggesting that current can flow under specific conditions, such as using thermocouples with temperature differentials.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and implications of built-in potential and contact potential. There is no consensus on whether diodes can function similarly to batteries, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the practical application of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings of the terms built-in potential and contact potential, as well as the conditions under which current can flow in circuits involving diodes.

yinx
Messages
39
Reaction score
0
Hello,

i was wondering for 1N4001 diode or zener diode has some built in potential, why can't they be used as batteries? I have some diodes lying around and I tried connecting to an LED, but it doesn't light up.

I know this question seem dumb, any help will be appreciated!

thanks!
Yinx
 
Physics news on Phys.org
yinx said:
Hello,

i was wondering for 1N4001 diode or zener diode has some built in potential, ...

Why do you believe they have "built in potential"?
 
pantaz said:
Why do you believe they have "built in potential"?

doesn't diodes have built in potential (aka contact potential)??

yinx
 
The built in potential of a diode is a result of thermal energy. At a temp above absolute zero, 0K, the silicon crystal lattice vibrates. These vibrations have energy which separates electrons from the parent atoms leaving holes behind. This is thermal generation of electron-hole pairs, ehp.

The electrons, e-, & holes, h+, move through the Si & cross the junction. On the n-side of the junction, holes accumulate & recombine w/ electrons, vice versa on the p side. This accumulation of charges results in a local E field near the junction, & the integral of E over the distance is the potential.

In order to forward bias the diode, i.e. establish forward current, the built in potential must be considered. It has a polarity which tends to oppose current flow. The source powering the network must supply a potential large enough to overcome this potential.

A good semiconductor physics text covers this in detail. It has diagrams which make it clear. That should be where you look for your answers. If you need clarification on what I've said, that would be fine.

Claude
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The term built-in potential is frequently used in electronics and isn't contact potential.
Even though there is such a potential difference between the P and the N side, when we close a circuit no current flows. We feel disappointed but Thermodynamics feels very happy (if it were a person) because we haven't been able to get energy out of nothing.
When we consider a closed circuit we realize the built-in potential isn't the only potential difference to account for. When you do it properly, you end up with zero electro motive force around the circuit and no current flows.
However, we can build a thermal engine. Simply heat a thermocouple with a flame and close the circuit with another thermocouple submerged in ice water. You'll notice current flows and you get work as in any thermal engine.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
5K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 45 ·
2
Replies
45
Views
9K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K