Why can't n -> p + minus-pi-meson?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the decay processes involving neutrons and protons, specifically the reactions n → p^+ + π^- and p^+ → n + π^+. Participants explore the implications of energy conservation and the role of vibrational energy in these processes, as well as the conditions under which certain decays are possible or impossible.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the impossibility of the decay n → p^+ + π^- due to energy conservation, suggesting that vibrational energy might provide the necessary mass-energy for the reaction.
  • Another participant emphasizes the need to compare the masses of the left-hand side (LHS) and right-hand side (RHS) of the decay equations to understand the energy constraints.
  • It is noted that for the decay p^+ → n + π^+, the mass of the LHS is smaller than that of the RHS, raising questions about the role of vibrational energy in this context.
  • A participant mentions that considering the proton as an elementary particle complicates the discussion of vibrational energy and decay frames.
  • There is a suggestion that a photon interacting with the proton could allow for the decay p^+ + γ → n + π^+, indicating a different scenario than the initial decay questions.
  • Confusion arises regarding the decay of Δ++ to Δ+ + π^+, despite the mass considerations, leading to further inquiries about the relevance of particle widths in these decays.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of vibrational energy in decay processes and whether certain decays are possible based on mass-energy considerations. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of vibrational energy and the conditions under which specific decays can occur.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference mass values in MeV/c² for the particles involved, but there is uncertainty about the implications of these values in relation to vibrational energy and decay frames. The discussion also touches on the concept of non-inertial frames and their relevance to particle decay.

nonequilibrium
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Hello,

In my book it says that
n \to p^+ + \pi^-
is not possible due to energy conservation issues: the mass of the rhs is larger than that of the lhs.

Now I was wondering, is it not possible to give the neutron e.g. some vibrational energy (like a drop of liquid continuously changing from a pancake to a dumbell-shape) which could be used to create the extra energy/mass required for the rhs? If not, what principle is stopping us? (Is there perhaps some conservation of "vibration" like there is a conservation of angular momentum?)

Thank you

EDIT: extra question: and if we put the meson on the other side: p^+ \to n + \pi^+, why is this not possible?
 
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Let's start with the extra question, because until you solve that, there's no point in going further. What is the mass of the right hand side? What is the mass of the left hand side?
 
So for
p^+ \to n + \pi^+
we have (in MeV/c²):
LHS: 938.3
RHS: 939.6 + 139.6
so the mass of the LHS is smaller than that of the RHS, so the question why this decay is impossible comes down to original question: why can't I give the proton enough vibrational energy to pay for the extra mass on the RHS.
 
Insofar as we are considering the proton as elementary, if it vibrates, the energy is kinetic, and at the instant of decay there is a frame in which it is at rest. The problem then reduces to the one well already solved.
 
But the frame in which it is as rest at, is a non-inertial frame of reference; so we're not allowed to switch over to it.

Or what about a photon hitting the proton?

Thank you for your time btw.

EDIT: okay apparently the decay is possible when a photon hits the proton, but then it's a different situation, namely
p^+ + \gamma \to n + \pi^+ (it was an exercise in my book)

Weird thing is, another exercise was the question if
\Delta^{++} \to \Delta^+ + \pi^+^
is possible, and it said "yes", even though the mass of the particle on the LHS is already less than the first particle on the right side! Very confused now...
 
Last edited:
"at the instant of decay there is a frame in which it is at rest"

As far as the Delta decays, look at the width of the Deltas.
 
I'm a bit puzzled by your last post. How does that quote tie together with your Delta comment? I probably don't get the connection because I don't get your Delta comment itself, because I don't know what you mean with "the width of the Deltas"? (my knowledge of particle physics doesn't go beyond an introductory modern physics course)
 

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