History Why didn't ancient civilizations harness the power of electricity?

[homeylova223]

I think the greek knew about magnets and magnetic stones. They also knew about statistic electricity the Egyptian knew about a fish which would shock you . My
question is why did it take so long for someone to wrap a magnet around a coil. What is the earliest in human history
that humans could have had electric power? I think electricity could have been used the 1600s surely because people like Francis Bacon
wrote about creating lab to test new scientific theories.

 

[hutchphd]

For one thing a length of wire is nontrivial to produce unless you have a good reason to do so.
What would a metalsmith of 1600 have said about a soda can...or the foil on a pack of gum?
We take this hard won technology as normal. It is decidedly not and we may soon realize the magnitude of effort we are carelessly throwing into the dustbin.

 

[fresh_42]

I think the greek knew about magnets and magnetic stones. They also knew about statistic electricity the Egyptian knew about a fish which would shock you . My
question is why did it take so long for someone to wrap a magnet around a coil. What is the earliest in human history
that humans could have had electric power? I think electricity could have been used the 1600s surely because people like Francis Bacon
wrote about creating lab to test new scientific theories.

• What is electricity?
• Lightnings result in fire, which was used, not electricity.
• Knowledge wasn't available to everyone.
• Only a few could even read.
• What is a coil?
• How do you harness electricity from an eel?
• What is power without a horse?
• Who would be interested in?
• Can it improve warfare?
• Copper is too soft to be useful, therefore bronze.
• Bronze is a bad conductor.
• And where should the electricity had come from to conduct it?
• People where too busy surviving.
• Static electricity is a prank at best.
• Even after the age of enlightenment it took years to connect magnetism to electricity.
• Early experiments were pure entertainment which requires a certain amount of luxury.
• ...

 

[Klystron]

Without offering a reference, I have read that certain chemical 'electroplating' techniques used by Bronze Age and later metal workers relied on mild electrical currents to color and finish metal products. IIRC thin metal plate were bathed in acidic liquids followed by a "quench" in a basic solution. The metal plates were then engraved and welded or bolted to shields and later, armor; among many other uses.

Metal workers were probably aware something was flowing through solution to the metal plates but useful theory of electrons required unhampered information exchange and freedom to discuss ideas free from superstition. With hindsight we can speculate that the cultures that built the Egyptian pyramids possessed the rudiments of a chemical electrical battery, but that hardly implies -- even if true -- civic lighting projects along the Nile River.

Focusing on simple problems sometimes sheds light on complex issues. Until the 20th century, electrical transmission required fine metal wires. Telegraph and early telephones required large spools of conducting wire as did civil electrification projects. Ancient Rome and Feudal Japan as examples had advanced steel weapons but I am not aware of plentiful metal wire conductors produced until well into the Industrial Age.

[Edit: I just read @hutchphd's post after I posted. Interesting how much of 21st C. electronics technology has become free of a wire 'tether'.]

 

[homeylova223]

So I guess the main problem for the people in the ancient world and Renaissance was finding the right metal to serve as a conductor for electricity the flow of electrons. They had bronze but they did not know to use Coppertone another issue is they could not mass produce metals yet. Another issue is people did not know about the link between magnetic and electricity.
@Klystron
Yes I read the Egyptian may have had an electric battery and used in the library of Alexandria.

 

[PeroK]

So I guess the main problem for the people in the ancient world and Renaissance was finding the right metal to serve as a conductor for electricity the flow of electrons. They had bronze but they did not know to use Coppertone another issue is they could not mass produce metals yet. Another issue is people did not know about the link between magnetic and electricity.
@Klystron
Yes I read the Egyptian may have had an electric battery and used in the library of Alexandria.

I'm always disappointed with the Romans that they didn't invent the bicycle. They built good enough roads.

 

[Vanadium 50]

They had bronze but they did not know to use Coppertone

Coppertone?

I think Hutchphd and fresh_42 explain well that you need a hierarchy of technologies. Wire, in the sizes we are used to, is a very modern technology. Wire nails are only about 150 years old.

 

[hutchphd]

I recall visiting Pompeii for the first time and thinking that, were I a wealthy person of those times, perhaps the social structure would not be so foreign. I do think the lack of electricity, although perhaps somewhat supplanted by labors of "lesser" humans (Thomas Jefferson style), would be the most particular difference.
And of course the bicycle would need some good fat pneumatic tires.

 

[fresh_42]

They built good enough roads.

But not for wooden tyres.

And of course the bicycle would need some good fat pneumatic tires.

And it took Goodyear years and almost ruined him, and definitely his health, to figure out how!

And the South American civilizations have not been behind the European ones, and they haven't had even a wheel. Demand is the number one motivation to develop something, and luxury the money you need to buy time for it.

 

[PeroK]

But not for wooden tyres.

They had chariots. The bicycle would have been a good option for those who couldn't afford a horse.

 

[hutchphd]

I simply don't know the answer here but for the terrain and climate of the Central American civilizations the wheel may not have been a good technology...(?)

 

[fresh_42]

They had chariots. The bicycle would have been a good option for those who couldn't afford a horse.

I assume the chain would have been a problem.

 

[hutchphd]

And the chariot seems the direct progenitor of the Segway...perhaps you do need the horse.

 

[kith]

As others have remarked, the most important thing for making electricity usable is the conductor.

The second most important thing is a stable current source. Finding induction before the Voltaic pile would have been incredible hard because one wouldn't have been able to get notable hands-on experience with electric currents.

 

[DaveE]

Check out this guy, who decided to build a toaster from scratch. This isn't about knowing how a toaster works, it's about the incredible complexity of the materials in our society that we take for granted.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=toaster+project

Then contemplate the enormous complexity in the computer you are using right now. I worked at a "state of the art" laser company that used "state of the art" materials to make products for "state of the art" scientific labs and product manufacturers, like microprocessors and jet engines, for example. None of us could have done anything useful without our suppliers of other "state of the art" products. In fact, we needed the semiconductors in our lasers that were made by our customers/suppliers with our lasers...

 

[Vanadium 50]

There is also the famous "I, Pencil" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I,_Pencil )

 

[jtbell]

[The Romans] had chariots. The bicycle would have been a good option for those who couldn't afford a horse.

I assume the chain would have been a problem.

Early bicycles didn't have chains. For example the velocipedes of the early and mid 1800s and the penny-farthings (high-wheelers) of the late 1800s.

But can you imagine riding a penny-farthing while wearing a toga?

 

[Delta2]

I think in ancient times, electricity and magnetism effects and phenomena though they were known, they were viewed as toy-like and ancient civilization just didnt put any research on these phenomena. They just couldn't imagine that one could make an electromagnetic engine e.g an electric motor that can deliver thousands or hundred of thousands of horse power i.e certainly not a toy.

 

[Rive]

What is the earliest in human history that humans could have had electric power?

Difficult to say. I think there was two main turning point what enabled the whole 'electricity' business to be invented: one is sufficient measurement/math: the other is a continuous (electric) source (Voltaic pile). Without having both, there was hardly any way to connect (static) electricity, current and magnetism together.

 

[gmax137]

Another 'turning point' is the change from thinking about the natural world to asking the world questions. The concept of "experimentation" vs. pure thought.

I'm no historian but the thinking of the ancients that I have read about was more along the lines of, there can be no good without evil; there can be no light without dark. That kind of stuff may be interesting but it does not engender technology.

Building electric generators and motors (and wires and switches) requires centuries of tinkering as opposed to concentrated thought.

 

[gleem]

Making wire was known to the Egyptians and other ancient civilizations at least for making jewelry (filigree) out of gold and silver both excellent conductors.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Yes, but their techniques couldn't make wire more than a few feet long.

 

[fresh_42]

Yes, but their techniques couldn't make wire more than a few feet long.

... and they had still nothing to conduct. Chances they connected jewelry with a potato or a lemon were probably low.

 

[TeethWhitener]

... and they had still nothing to conduct. Chances they connected jewelry with a potato or a lemon were probably low.

Does it even matter if they did? That still seems like a really long way from the concept that an electric current can be used to supply power to a properly constructed device.

 

[Drakkith]

I think the greek knew about magnets and magnetic stones. They also knew about statistic electricity the Egyptian knew about a fish which would shock you . My
question is why did it take so long for someone to wrap a magnet around a coil.

Let's get some perspective here. The magnetic compass was only developed around the 11th-12th century, well over a thousand years after the ancient greeks. Making the connection between a magnet and an electric current requires many different ideas, concepts, and technologies. Even if some ancient pre-scientist somehow made a wire coil and put a magnet through it, there is still an enormous gap that needs to be bridged

A few things you'd need to have to understand and make useful electrical circuits:

• Good quality magnets
• Conductors
• voltage sources
• mathematics more advanced than that available to the ancient greeks
• capacitors, inductors, resistors, and all of the understanding and technology to make and use them
• the invention of chemistry (how else can you make batteries and many other electrical components?)
• major advances in metallurgy

The list could really go on and on. And this is just what's required for basic circuits, like those in the early-to-mid 19th century.

 

[bigfooted]

If you want to see some historic electric devices, you should visit Teylers museum in Haarlem, Netherlands (it's open again, for those allowed to travel):
https://www.teylersmuseum.nl/en/teylers-museum?set_language=en
See e.g . one of the first Leyden jars, here next to a huge electrostatic generator (that was shown to napoleon when he visited the institute, who wanted to see it being used on one of his men. They used it on a cow instead):
https://www.teylersmuseum.nl/nl/collectie/instrumenten/fk-0508-electrostatic-generator-conductors

The museum used to be a scientific institute, Lorentz was one of its directors. It has many original devices from e.g. Ampere, Volta, and others, but also an impressive fossil collection. The museum is one of the most beautiful musea I've visited.

 

[Keith_McClary]

build a toaster from scratch

My toaster is a Sunbeam T35, which is much lower tech.

 

[BWV]

You might first ask why more obvious inventions, such as the horse collar or stirrups were not invented by the Greeks or Romans

the main motivator of technology in pre-modern times was warfare, as existing technologies tend to become entrenched in traditional societies. People in pre-modern times did not expect change and elites who benefited from the status quo had little incentive to encourage innovation. Warfare was one area where the advantage of a better technology could not be ignored - longbows and pikes ending the era of the mounted knight, for example.

 

[Keith_McClary]

and they had still nothing to conduct

Does a lightning rod "harness the power of electricity"?

 

[Vanadium 50]

such as the horse collar or stirrups were not invented by the Greeks or Romans

Or why it took as long as it did for cavalry to catch on?

 

[Nugatory]

Or why it took as long as it did for cavalry to catch on?

The stirrup was a prerequisite for effective cavalry, I believe.

 

[Vanadium 50]

That would certainly explain it.

 

[Mary Conrads Sanburn]

U.S. Energy Information Administration

Electricity is a secondary energy source

Electricity is the flow of electrical power or charge. Electricity is both a basic part of nature and one of the most widely used forms of energy.

The electricity that we use is a secondary energy source because it is produced by converting primary sources of energy such as coal, natural gas, nuclear energy, solar energy, and wind energy, into electrical power. Electricity is also referred to as an energy carrier, which means it can be converted to other forms of energy such as mechanical energy or heat. Primary energy sources are renewable or nonrenewable energy, but the electricity we use is neither renewable nor nonrenewable.Electricity use has dramatically changed daily life

Despite its great importance in daily life, few people probably stop to think about what life would be like without electricity. Like air and water, people tend to take electricity for granted. However, people use electricity to do many jobs every day—from lighting, heating, and cooling homes to powering televisions and computers.

Before electricity became widely available, about 100 years ago, candles, whale oil lamps, and kerosene lamps provided light; iceboxes kept food cold; and wood-burning or coal-burning stoves provided heat.

Scientists and inventors have worked to decipher the principles of electricity since the 1600s. Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Edison, and Nikola Tesla made notable contributions to our understanding and use of electricity.

Benjamin Franklin demonstrated that lightning is electricity. Thomas Edison invented the first long-lasting incandescent light bulb.

Before 1879, direct current (DC) electricity was used in arc lights for outdoor lighting. In the late 1800s, Nikola Tesla pioneered the generation, transmission, and use of alternating current (AC) electricity, which reduced the cost of transmitting electricity over long distances. Tesla's inventions brought electricity into homes to power indoor lighting and into factories to power industrial machines.

Last updated: March 20, 2020

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/

 

[epenguin]

Antiquity did not have a culture of innovation.Maybe the thing to explain is rather how did they even manage to innovate given this lack.
I think the first person to have a positive theory or ideology of innovation was Francis Bacon.
In his time things were just beginning to move, as he must have noticed.
Once an innovation has somehow happened it will often be irresistible.
E.g. in military matters as said above, if you don't innovate to match your enemy's innovation, he conquers you, so it spreads one way or the other. It then if you have won and have become good at that technique of winning, you don't particularly want the technique to change again.
On the other hand innovation can often threaten social systems and interests, and for that reason was often opposed.

 

[fresh_42]

Antiquity did not have a culture of innovation ... I think the first person to have a positive theory or ideology of innovation was Francis Bacon.

What? Either you have a very strange view what innovation is, or this is so wrong, that it isn't even wrong. The easiest counter example is always supplied by warfare. There has been plenty of innovation between the first hand axe and a halberd.

 

[Drakkith]

What? Either you have a very strange view what innovation is, or this is so wrong, that it isn't even wrong. The easiest counter example is always supplied by warfare. There has been plenty of innovation between the first hand axe and a halberd.

I agree with epenguin, at least in general. There is a pretty clear difference between pre-baconian times and post. The development of empiricism and the scientific method greatly accelerated innovation and improvement in all areas. Bacon himself wasn't solely responsible for this, as it is clear that the 'roots' of this innovation-driven culture had been forming for quite some time, but the tree didn't sprout until Bacon's time and in no small part due to his influence.

 

[fresh_42]

I agree with epenguin, at least in general. There is a pretty clear difference between pre-baconian times and post. The development of empiricism and the scientific method greatly accelerated innovation and improvement in all areas. Bacon himself wasn't solely responsible for this, as it is clear that the 'roots' of this innovation-driven culture had been forming for quite some time, but the tree didn't sprout until Bacon's time and in no small part due to his influence.

You cannot say that people weren't innovative before the 16th century. Sorry, but either innovative means something completely different in English than the same word means in German, or this is ridiculous. Every single culture had to be innovative to survive, and later to develop. The history of mankind is marked by innovations. You basically say that the pyramids could have been built without innovations. We still don't know how they made it! And the zero was a great Indian innovation: they named something which wasn't there! This was several thousand years before Bacon. Innovation is the basic property which enabled us to colonize the planet.

 

[Drakkith]

You cannot say that people weren't innovative before the 16th century.

I am not saying so. Of course there were innovative people. I'm talking about a culture. One with a focused, systematic way to develop and disseminate knowledge, improvements, technology, etc, and one readily accepting of such changes that they introduce.

It's the difference between improvements in a craft being slowly passed through word of mouth and generational teaching, versus improvements being rapidly spread through widespread discussion, journals, mass-teaching, etc.

The word 'culture' is the key word here in 'culture of innovation', not innovation.

 

[fresh_42]

Every invention requires a innovative person. Hence innovations are closely connected to mankind.

I'm talking about a culture.

Sorry, but I totally disagree with this point of view. It was before the 16th century, during the 16th century and after the 16th century until today when what you call a culture was, has been, and is limited to a small group of people who have the luxury not to fight for food on a daily basis. This was true for Archimedes, as it was for Bacon, and is today. The limits you draw to separate a group of persons from the general population, and inventions from innovations are all artificial and deliberately set. I cannot see by any means a turning point in the 16th century. At best it has been the fact that more people than before possessed the luxury to invent. But even this quantitative distinction is wrong, as this group of people grew since we settled down. If anything, then it was the age of enlightenment beginning with the 18th century which set a turning point in the sense that religion, and superstition were replaced by reason.

 

[Drakkith]

@fresh_42 Then I guess we'll agree to disagree.

 

[Flatland]

They did. Look up the Baghdad batteries.

 

[Delta2]

They did. Look up the Baghdad batteries.

Yes certainly they knew a thing or two about electricity, however they didn't manage to get into the very advanced technological miracles like computers and smartphones. Electricity came into heavy use in the world since 1900s and within 120 years our life is affected by electricity so much, that we can't imagine how human societies existed for the prior 5000 years without electricity, computers and smartphones.