Why Do Different Definitions of Rotation Matrices Exist in Mathematics?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the different definitions of rotation matrices in mathematics, particularly focusing on their interpretations in terms of clockwise and counterclockwise rotations. Participants explore the implications of these definitions in both active and passive transformations, as well as the conventions used in mathematical contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the standard definition of the rotation matrix, suggesting that the commonly used form represents clockwise rotation, while counterclockwise should be considered positive.
  • Another participant counters this claim, referencing a source that indicates the first matrix corresponds to counterclockwise rotations for positive angles and clockwise for negative angles in a right-handed system.
  • A later reply acknowledges that both participants may be correct, depending on whether they are discussing active or passive transformations, highlighting a potential ambiguity in definitions.
  • Further clarification is provided that the first variant of the rotation matrix is used when rotating a vector within a coordinate system, while the second variant applies when the coordinate system is rotated and the vector remains fixed.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of distinguishing between the rotation of the coordinate system and the rotation of an object, suggesting that the transformations are relative and can be interpreted in different ways.
  • It is noted that the second version of the rotation matrix can be derived from the first by replacing the angle with its negation and considering the properties of sine and cosine functions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and interpretations of rotation matrices, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without a clear consensus on which definition is universally accepted.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific mathematical conventions and transformations, but the discussion remains open-ended regarding the implications of these definitions and their applications.

LagrangeEuler
Messages
711
Reaction score
22
Happy new year. Why everybody uses this definition of rotation matrixR(\theta) = \begin{bmatrix}<br /> \cos\theta &amp; -\sin\theta \\[0.3em]<br /> \sin\theta &amp; \cos\theta \\[0.3em]<br /> <br /> <br /> \end{bmatrix}
? This is clockwise rotation. And we always use counter clockwise in mathematics as a positive direction
R(\theta) = \begin{bmatrix}<br /> \cos\theta &amp; \sin\theta \\[0.3em]<br /> -\sin\theta &amp; \cos\theta \\[0.3em]<br /> \end{bmatrix}
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I'm not sure you are correct. Look at what is written here about rotations in 2D, in the section "In two dimensions". In the standard right-handed system, your first matrix represents counterclockwise rotations for positive ##\theta## and clockwise rotations for negative ##\theta##.
 
I think I am. Please look here
 
Aha, I think we are both right, but I was tacitly assuming you were talking about active transformations, while from the video it is apparent that you were in fact talking about passive transformations. See the discussion on the same wiki page under the section "Ambiguities".
 
Ok. So first variant
R(\theta) = \begin{bmatrix}<br /> \cos\theta &amp; -\sin\theta \\[0.3em]<br /> \sin\theta &amp; \cos\theta \\[0.3em]<br /> <br /> <br /> \end{bmatrix}
is when I use rotation of vector in the system. And second is when I rotate system and vector stays fixed
R(\theta) = \begin{bmatrix}<br /> \cos\theta &amp; \sin\theta \\[0.3em]<br /> -\sin\theta &amp; \cos\theta \\[0.3em]<br /> <br /> <br /> \end{bmatrix}
Thanks!
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: suremarc and S.G. Janssens
Yes. You need to carefully distinguish between the rotation of the coordinate system from one orientation to another, versus the rotation of a structure in a fixed coordinate system. You need to pick the appropriate transformation for each.
 
FactChecker said:
Yes. You need to carefully distinguish between the rotation of the coordinate system from one orientation to another, versus the rotation of a structure in a fixed coordinate system. You need to pick the appropriate transformation for each.

Rotating the object by an angle of \theta is the same as rotating the coordinate system by -\theta -- it's all relative. For all intents and purposes, you can just consider only rotating the object (and changing the angle to its negation where needed).

LagrangeEuler said:
Ok. So first variant
R(\theta) = \begin{bmatrix}<br /> \cos\theta &amp; -\sin\theta \\[0.3em]<br /> \sin\theta &amp; \cos\theta \\[0.3em]<br /> <br /> <br /> \end{bmatrix}
is when I use rotation of vector in the system. And second is when I rotate system and vector stays fixed
R(\theta) = \begin{bmatrix}<br /> \cos\theta &amp; \sin\theta \\[0.3em]<br /> -\sin\theta &amp; \cos\theta \\[0.3em]<br /> <br /> <br /> \end{bmatrix}
Thanks!

The second version is basically the same as the first version except if your replace \theta with -\theta and use the fact that cosine is an even function whereas sine is an odd function.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
Replies
22
Views
5K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 31 ·
2
Replies
31
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K