Why do Dirac spinors obey the Klein-Gordon equation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the relationship between Dirac spinors and the Klein-Gordon equation, exploring why solutions to the Dirac equation also satisfy the Klein-Gordon equation, which is typically associated with real scalar fields. Participants examine the implications of this relationship and its physical significance.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the solutions to the Dirac equation are also solutions to the Klein-Gordon equation, questioning the physical meaning behind this relationship.
  • One participant explains that any free-particle mode must obey the "on-shell condition" and thus the Klein-Gordon equation, linking it to the Dirac equation through mathematical derivation.
  • Another participant states that squaring the Dirac equation leads to the Klein-Gordon equation, reinforcing the idea that solutions of the Dirac equation inherently satisfy the Klein-Gordon equation.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of spinors following the equations of motion for real scalar field particles, with questions about whether all free field operators must obey the Klein-Gordon equation alongside their own equations of motion.
  • A participant introduces the idea that quantum fields for different spins (spin 0 and spin 1/2) satisfy different commutation/anti-commutation relations, suggesting a distinction in the treatment of these fields.
  • Another participant mentions that components of electromagnetic fields also obey a wave equation, linking this to principles of relativity and the nature of spacetime.
  • One participant expresses curiosity about the potential deeper physics behind the relationship between fermions and scalar real particles, suggesting a possible common property or characteristic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the mathematical relationship between the Dirac and Klein-Gordon equations, but there is no consensus on the physical implications or significance of this relationship. Some participants find the connection curious, while others do not see anything unusual about it.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the implications of the relationship between Dirac spinors and the Klein-Gordon equation without resolving the underlying questions about the physical significance of this connection. The discussion reflects a range of interpretations and assumptions about the nature of these equations and their solutions.

carllacan
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The solutions to the Dirac equation are also solutions of the Klein-Gordon equation, which is the equation of motion for the real scalar field. I can see that the converse is not true, but why do spinors follow the equation for real-field particles? Is there any physical meaning to it?
 
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Sure, any free-particle mode for a particle with mass ##m## must obey the "on-shell condition" ##p^2=m^2## (in units where \hbar=c=1). Thus the fields must obey the free KG equation
$$(\Box+m^2) \psi=(\partial_{\mu} \partial^{\mu} + m^2)\psi=0.$$
That's true for the Dirac equation, because you have
$$(\mathrm{i} \not{\partial}-m) \psi=0.$$
This implies of course
$$(\mathrm{i} \not{\partial}+m)(\mathrm{i} \not{\partial}-m) \psi=0$$
Now multiply out the operator. You get
$$(-\not{\partial}^2-m^2)\psi = 0 \qquad (*),$$
but now
$$\not{\partial}^2=\gamma^{\mu} \gamma^{\nu} \partial_{\mu} \partial_{\nu}.$$
Since the partial derivatives commute this gives from the Dirac-matrices' anti-commutation relations (Clifford algebra of Minkowski space!)
$$\not{\partial}^2= \frac{1}{2} [\gamma^{\mu},\gamma^{\nu}]_+ \partial_{\mu} \partial_{\nu} = g^{\mu \nu} \partial_{\mu} \partial_{\nu} = \Box,$$
and thus (*) is just the proof that the Dirac field describes really particles with mass ##m##.
 
If you square the Dirac Equation, you get the Klein-Gordon equation. So any solution of the Dirac Equation is a solution of the Klein-Gordon equation.
 
Thank you both. I already see how to go from the Dirac equation to the KG. My question was: how is it possible that spinors, which are the particles of the Dirac field, follow the equation of motion of the real scalar field particles. It just weirds me out.

vanhees71 said:
Sure, any free-particle mode for a particle with mass ##m## must obey the "on-shell condition" ##p^2=m^2## (in units where \hbar=c=1). Thus the fields must obey the free KG equation.

Does it mean that all free field operators obey the KG on top of their own equation of motion? Is there any significance to the real scalar field only obeying KG?
 
Moving beyond single-particle states, quantum fields are operators on mutli-particle states (Fock spaces), and quantum fields for spin 0 and spin 1/2 satisfy different commutation/anti-commutation relations.
 
I might also point out the components of E and B fields of electromagnetism obey a wave equation ##(m = 0)##. The reasons are relativity and the fact that space time is homogeneous and isotropic.
 
carllacan said:
Thank you both. I already see how to go from the Dirac equation to the KG. My question was: how is it possible that spinors, which are the particles of the Dirac field, follow the equation of motion of the real scalar field particles. It just weirds me out.

Does it mean that all free field operators obey the KG on top of their own equation of motion? Is there any significance to the real scalar field only obeying KG?
I don't see, what's weird about it. What don't you understand about my derivation?

The key to the full understanding, why relativistic wave equations look the way they look is the representation theory of the Poincare group. See, e.g., my QFT lecture notes:

http://th.physik.uni-frankfurt.de/~hees/publ/lect.pdf
 
carllacan said:
Thank you both. I already see how to go from the Dirac equation to the KG. My question was: how is it possible that spinors, which are the particles of the Dirac field, follow the equation of motion of the real scalar field particles. It just weirds me out.
There is nothing strange about it. Consider some quantity ##f(t)## satisfying first-order differential equation
$$\frac{df}{dt}=0$$
Obviously, it follows that this quantity also satisfies the second order differential equation
$$\frac{d^2f}{dt^2}=0$$
 
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No, I don't see anything wrong or weird with the math. It is just that I found it curious that the Dirac field obeyed the equation for the scalar real field, and I though there might be some interesting physics behind the fact, like fermions and scalar real particles having some common property, or fermions being scalar real field particles with an additional characteristic, or somethin.

But I guess the fact that none of you understood what I meant means that there's actually nothing interesting about it after all.

Thanks for your answers.
 

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