Why Do Neon Signs and Transformers Fail More Often in Certain Areas?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the frequent failures of neon signs, transformers, and ballasts in specific environments, particularly in restaurants and urban areas. Participants explore potential causes for these failures, including environmental factors, equipment quality, and electrical conditions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes a higher incidence of failures in neon and fluorescent lighting in restaurants compared to suburban locations, questioning the reliability of this observation.
  • Another participant suggests that the number of fluorescent tubes in commercial settings could skew perceptions of failure rates and emphasizes the need to normalize various factors such as usage hours and power ratings.
  • A participant mentions that a specific national chain experiences consistent failures despite using the same equipment, hinting at potential issues with procurement practices.
  • Concerns are raised about environmental factors, such as contamination from exhaust fumes for outdoor signs and the impact of heat and humidity on transformers in indoor settings.
  • One participant shares an experience with noisy AC power in a commercial setting, attributing it to dimmer switches, which may contribute to transformer lifespan issues.
  • Another participant inquires about the effects of harmonic distortion and transients on the equipment's performance.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views regarding the causes of failures, with no consensus reached on specific factors contributing to the observed issues. Multiple competing hypotheses are presented without resolution.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the need for proper testing equipment and methodologies to accurately assess the situation, highlighting potential limitations in the current understanding of the problem.

neonguy
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Hi all-
Can anyone offer any insight into a problem I've noticed for years but don't know how to solve?
I'm a self taught neon tube bender. I am not an electrician or electrical engineer.
Through the years, I've noticed neon tube, fluorescent lamp, transformer and ballast failure more often at restaurants than other places, in downtown areas in cities as opposed to smaller suburban locations and where the city provides the power.
Guys on a sign repair truck do basic voltage tests but not much more. They aren't really trained (around here anyway) in anything more technical.
When I bring up the subject, most companies I deal with are more concerned with getting the job done and getting paid.
What can I look for besides voltage spikes, sags etc.? Who would have the proper testing equipment.
Thanks!
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
Before trying to hazard guesses for reasons for your your observations you should first consider the following.
Are you sure that your observations are 'real'. Is the actual percentage of failures more or is it just that there are more fluo tubes in commercial premises? Also, how many hours are the tubes run or turned on/off in the different conditions? On/off can stress tubes. Are they all the same power rating or are the commercial tubes higher powered?
This is a bit like a medical research project in which you have to normalise all the factors before you can decide on whether or not you have an actual cause and effect.
 
Well, one problem restaurant is a national chain, signs manufactured by the same company,
lamps and ballasts are the same and operating hours are consistent.
 
OK. Just needed to check.
I don't have any ideas, though. Is this a UK or US situation?
 
Are these outdoor or indoor signs?

If outdoor, perhaps contamination from chimney or cooker hood exhaust fumes has some effect.

If indoor, are the transformers in or near hot, humid kitchens?
 
neonguy said:
Well, one problem restaurant is a national chain, signs manufactured by the same company,
lamps and ballasts are the same and operating hours are consistent.
Perhaps the national chain gets the lowest bidder for the signs. Just saying.
 
U.S.
Outdoor, not near any type of kitchen exhaust
Lowest bidder, yeah probably, but the same name brand lamps and ballasts are used throughout the industry.
Does anyone know anything about: 1. Harmonic distortion
2. transients
Thanks!
 
One place that I played guitar at had VERY noisy AC power. I worked with the bar-maid to figure out what was the source, and found that the lights over the back-bar were on a dimmer that was causing the noise. The only way to stop the buzzing in the amps and PA was to either turn those lights all the way up or shut them off. Commercial establishments like restaurants often have entire banks of lights on dimmers. Perhaps this could be a contributing factor in shortening transformer-life.
 
These are the large outdoor road signs. I have used that same buzz in an AM radio
to determine which neon tube bordering the interior of a restaurant was starting to go bad, even though all of the tubes looked good.