Why Do Torques Use a Negative Sign in Inverted Pendulum Equations?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Arslan
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Pendulum
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the use of negative signs in the torque equations for an inverted pendulum, particularly focusing on the definition of the angle theta and its implications on torque direction. Participants explore the relationship between the direction of rotation, the application of forces, and the resulting torque calculations.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why torques are taken in the negative direction in the equation, suggesting it should be expressed differently.
  • Another participant explains that the definition of theta, which increases in the clockwise direction, necessitates the use of negative signs for clockwise torques.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes that the body rotates about its center of gravity and argues that the applied force causes a counterclockwise rotation, challenging the sign convention.
  • Another participant acknowledges the counterclockwise rotation but asserts that the issue is merely a matter of sign convention, reiterating that clockwise torques are considered positive due to the defined angle.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the direction of rotation and its impact on torque signs, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain unresolved in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on the definition of angle theta and the implications of sign conventions in torque calculations, which may not be universally agreed upon.

Arslan
Messages
20
Reaction score
0
i have problem with the equation encircled in red in the figure. I(theeta)''=sum of all torqes acting on the body. but they are taking torques in the negative direction why.
It should be -VLsin+HLcos=I(theeta)''
 

Attachments

Physics news on Phys.org
Arslan said:
i have problem with the equation encircled in red in the figure. I(theeta)''=sum of all torqes acting on the body. but they are taking torques in the negative direction why.
It should be -VLsin+HLcos=I(theeta)''
Because the way theta is defined (with respect to the vertical) it increases in the 'negative' (clockwise) direction. If they defined theta with respect to the horizontal then you'd be correct.
 
but the body is rotating along its center of gravity. If the force is applied on cart, the cart will move in the forward direction and transfer the force to the rod in the direction of red arrow, and the body will rotate along its center of gravity. So body is rotating in counter clockwise direction.
 
Arslan said:
but the body is rotating along its center of gravity. If the force is applied on cart, the cart will move in the forward direction and transfer the force to the rod in the direction of red arrow, and the body will rotate along its center of gravity. So body is rotating in counter clockwise direction.
All true, but irrelevant. It's just a matter of sign convention. Since theta is defined in the clockwise direction, torques in the clockwise direction will be positive.
 

Similar threads

Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 76 ·
3
Replies
76
Views
7K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K