Why do we need setup and hold time?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the necessity of setup and hold times in flip-flops, focusing on the underlying reasons related to signal integrity and timing in digital circuits. It encompasses technical explanations and reasoning related to the behavior of flip-flops in response to input signals.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that setup time is essential for allowing input signals to charge or discharge input capacitors fully, ensuring correct voltage levels before sampling.
  • Others argue that hold time is necessary to maintain the state of the flip-flop, as a short input signal may cause the output to revert to its original state if not held long enough.
  • A participant notes differences in setup times between flip-flops from different families (HC and AC) despite having the same input capacitance, suggesting that other factors influence timing characteristics.
  • Another participant emphasizes that internal capacitors within the integrated circuit also require time to respond, not just the input capacitance.
  • It is mentioned that specific minimum and maximum voltage levels at internal nodes must be met at the clock application moment to ensure reliable output, otherwise the output may revert before stabilizing.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the roles of setup and hold times, indicating that multiple competing explanations exist without a clear consensus on the primary factors influencing these timing requirements.

Contextual Notes

Some statements depend on specific definitions of capacitance and timing, and the discussion does not resolve the implications of different flip-flop families on setup and hold times.

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Why do we need set up and hold time in Flipflops?
 
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After you apply the input signal it takes some time to charge/discharge the input capacitors. Before that the input nodes will have wrong voltages. Thus set-up time is required to fully prepare the input for sampling.

Flip-flops are bistable devices. However to switch the state you need to drive the gate for a finite time. If your input is short, the output will revert back to the original state. Thus we need hold time to successfully switch the state.
 
Kholdstare said:
After you apply the input signal it takes some time to charge/discharge the input capacitors. Before that the input nodes will have wrong voltages. Thus set-up time is required to fully prepare the input for sampling.

Flip-flops are bistable devices. However to switch the state you need to drive the gate for a finite time. If your input is short, the output will revert back to the original state. Thus we need hold time to successfully switch the state.

I looked up datasheets of flipflops with same input capacitance but of different family (HC and AC).
The max clock frequency and hence the set up time are different.
74HC73 and 74AC109. Both have 10pf input capacitance for data line. But setup times are different.

The input capacitance sound good when you think of cmos gates. But it's not the same with TTL gates.
 
its not just capacitance at the input, but the internal capacitors of the intergrated circuit need time to work too
 
You need certain minimum/maximum voltages at certain internal input nodes (gate node etc.) on the chip at the moment of application of clock. Even if you don't meet that criteria your output will still try to change but before it reaches the desired value it will revert and go back to the initial value. When you have met those criteria you are sure to get the desired output no matter what happens at intermediate time.
 

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