Why does 32 F ice have more energy than 32 F water?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the energy content of ice and water at 32°F, specifically questioning why ice is perceived to have more energy than water at the same temperature. The scope includes conceptual understanding of energy states in phase changes and practical applications related to cooling processes.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that ice has more energy than water at 32°F, while others argue the opposite, stating that water has more energy due to the energy required to melt ice.
  • A participant discusses the practical application of using ice to cool wine, noting that partially frozen bottles are less effective than fully frozen ones.
  • Another participant mentions the concept of latent heat, suggesting that the energy required to freeze water does not remain in the ice.
  • There is a reference to a college physics lesson about the energy required to create ice compared to water, but the reasoning behind this is not fully articulated in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express conflicting views on whether ice or water at 32°F has more energy, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference latent heat and the energy extraction process during freezing, but there are no detailed explanations provided, leaving some assumptions and definitions unclear.

gary350
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Why does 32 F ice have more energy that 32 F water?
 
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Same reason the sun shines at night.
 
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gary350 said:
Why does 32 F ice have more energy that 32 F water?
As you can tell by the reply by V50, you really should try to make a better opening post. Where have you read this? Post links please whenever asking technical questions. And if you post those links, will the answer be self-evident?
 
gary350 said:
Why does 32 F ice have more energy that 32 F water?
Wrong way around. The water has more energy. You have to add energy to melt the ice.
 
I am making blackberry wine fermentation generates heat. I have water frozen in 2 liter soft drink bottles. When wine gets up to 72 deg F it is too hot it needs to be 68 deg all the time but best I can do is put bottles of ice in the wine to cool it down. A bottle of ice will cool the wine down to about 61 degrees. I had 5 bottles of ice frozen over a period of 8 days all the ice was used up in 6 days and the freezer is not able to freeze ice bottles fast enough so I have been using bottles that are only 5% or 10% frozen to cool wine. A bottle that is not completely frozen only cools wine down to about 68 deg F. It takes about 4 hours for a solid piece of ice to completely melt lowering wine temperature about 6 deg colder than 32 deg water bottles.
 
gary350 said:
I am making blackberry wine fermentation generates heat. I have water frozen in 2 liter soft drink bottles. When wine gets up to 72 deg F it is too hot it needs to be 68 deg all the time but best I can do is put bottles of ice in the wine to cool it down. A bottle of ice will cool the wine down to about 61 degrees. I had 5 bottles of ice frozen over a period of 8 days all the ice was used up in 6 days and the freezer is not able to freeze ice bottles fast enough so I have been using bottles that are only 5% or 10% frozen to cool wine. A bottle that is not completely frozen only cools wine down to about 68 deg F. It takes about 4 hours for a solid piece of ice to completely melt lowering wine temperature about 6 deg colder than 32 deg water bottles.
Yes, it is because the freezer is extracting heat (energy) from the water / ice. The water takes a long time to freeze, because there is a lot of heat to extract while it freezes (called latent heat). So the ice has less energy than liquid water.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_heat
 
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Michael Price said:
Yes, it is because the freezer is extracting heat (energy) from the water / ice. The water takes a long time to freeze, because there is a lot of heat to extract while it freezes (called latent heat). So the ice has less energy than liquid water.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_heat

You must be thinking heat is energy and cold is absence of energy.

I am thinking ice has the ability to remove more heat than 32 deg water.

I remember college physics teacher explaining, it takes more energy to make ice than cold water the same temperature. That was 50 years ago. I don't remember WHY it takes more energy to make ice?
 
gary350 said:
You must be thinking heat is energy and cold is absence of energy.

I am thinking ice has the ability to remove more heat than 32 deg water.

I remember college physics teacher explaining, it takes more energy to make ice than cold water the same temperature. That was 50 years ago. I don't remember WHY it takes more energy to make ice?
Yes, you remember correctly. But the energy required to freeze the water does not end up in the ice. The work (a form of energy) required to extract the energy from the water gets chucked out the back of the freezer as heat.
As for WHY, you will have read the latent heat Wikipedia energy I posted - sorry, Wikpedia articles are never great, but I don't have the energy(!) to explain it all.myself.
 
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