Why does air density decrease as we go higher in altitude?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between altitude, air pressure, and air density. Participants explore the underlying principles of gas behavior, particularly in the context of the ideal gas law and how these principles apply to changes in density with altitude. The scope includes theoretical explanations and mathematical reasoning related to gases and their properties.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that as altitude increases, air pressure decreases, prompting a question about the relationship between pressure and density.
  • Another participant explains that gases are compressible, indicating that higher pressure results in greater compression and thus higher density at lower altitudes.
  • There is a reiteration of the compressibility of gases, with a participant questioning how the formula P = hpg relates to changes in pressure and density with altitude.
  • Several participants reference the ideal gas law (PV = nRT) to explain the relationship between pressure, volume, and temperature, suggesting that this law is fundamental to understanding air density changes.
  • A participant elaborates on the ideal gas law by introducing the concept of particle number and density, leading to a formulation that connects pressure and density.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on how to apply the ideal gas law to demonstrate changes in density and pressure with altitude.
  • It is noted that if pressure decreases while temperature does not decrease as quickly, density will also decrease, particularly in the troposphere where temperature decreases with altitude.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the principles of gas behavior and the application of the ideal gas law, but there are ongoing questions about the specific relationships and how to demonstrate them mathematically. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise implications of these relationships at varying altitudes.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding assumptions about temperature behavior with altitude and the specific conditions under which the ideal gas law applies. The relationship between pressure, density, and temperature is not fully resolved, particularly in terms of how these variables interact at different altitudes.

sgstudent
Messages
726
Reaction score
3
As we go higher up a mountain, the air pressure decreases. But why would that cause the air density to decrease? Since pressure is hpg, so if h decreases pressure decreases but what causes the air density to decrease as well?

Thanks for the help :)
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Gases are compressible. More pressure means they are compressed into a smaller volume. Liquids not so much. Water has about the same density in a column.
 


A.T. said:
Gases are compressible. More pressure means they are compressed into a smaller volume. Liquids not so much. Water has about the same density in a column.

Oh so at the surface of the earth, because the pressure is greater so it is more compressed while higher up the pressure is less so the compression is smaller?

But then again now with only one formula, P=hpg now that h and p decrease so the pressure will decrease disproportionately?
 
It's a direct consequence of PV = nRT.
 


SteamKing said:
It's a direct consequence of PV = nRT.

How would you apply that formula here?

Thanks
 
sgstudent said:
How would you apply that formula here?

Thanks

If you define N as number of particles (as opposed to number of moles), the ideal gas law is PV = NkT where k is the Boltzmann constant, a fundamental physical constant. Divide both sides by V and you get

P = nkT

Where n = N/V is the number of particles per unit volume. Multiply n by m, the mass per particle, and you get the mass per unit volume (aka density) rho. Hence n = rho/m and the ideal gas law becomes

P = (rho/m)kT

For air, there is more than one type of particle so m is a weighted average of the masses of the different molecules.
 


cepheid said:
If you define N as number of particles (as opposed to number of moles), the ideal gas law is PV = NkT where k is the Boltzmann constant, a fundamental physical constant. Divide both sides by V and you get

P = nkT

Where n = N/V is the number of particles per unit volume. Multiply n by m, the mass per particle, and you get the mass per unit volume (aka density) rho. Hence n = rho/m and the ideal gas law becomes

P = (rho/m)kT

For air, there is more than one type of particle so m is a weighted average of the masses of the different molecules.

Oh so from this equation how will we show that the density and pressure changes with altitude?
 
sgstudent said:
Oh so from this equation how will we show that the density and pressure changes with altitude?

This equation shows that P is proportional to rho so that if P decreases at a constant T, then rho must as well. However, even if T is not constant, as long as it decreases more slowly than P does, then the reduction in pressure leads to a reduction in density. This is true in the troposphere, where temperature decreases linearly with altitude, but pressure decreases as a power law.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 70 ·
3
Replies
70
Views
6K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
3K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 39 ·
2
Replies
39
Views
2K