Why Does Factoring Change the Existence of a Limit in Spivak's Problem?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of factoring in the context of limits, particularly in relation to Spivak's problem. Participants explore the conditions under which limits exist and how the manipulation of functions affects these limits, including cases where limits may not exist.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a limit involving the expression (x^2 - a^2)/(x - a) and argues that factoring leads to a limit that appears to exist while another limit does not, questioning the validity of the original limit's existence.
  • Another participant states that the product of limits rule applies only if both limits exist, emphasizing the importance of this condition.
  • A different viewpoint introduces functions f(x) = 1/x and g(x) = 1/x^2, discussing how the existence of limits can depend on the reference system and whether limits approach infinity.
  • One participant provides a trivial example using f(x) = x - a and g(x) = 1/(x - a) to illustrate that even if the product limit exists, the individual limits may not, thus complicating the application of the product rule.
  • Several participants reiterate the necessity for limits to exist in order to apply certain limit properties, raising questions about how to justify limits when some components do not exist.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the condition that limits must exist for the product rule to apply, but there is disagreement on specific examples and interpretations of limits, particularly in the context of factoring and the implications of non-existent limits.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the conditions under which limits exist, particularly when factoring and manipulating functions. There are unresolved questions about how to handle cases where some limits do not exist while others do.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and educators in mathematics, particularly those studying calculus and limit theory, as well as individuals interested in the nuances of limit properties and their applications.

Alpharup
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Consider the limit
lim f(x)g(x)
x→a
Spivak has proved that this is equal to lim f(x) multlied by
x→a
lim g(x)
x→a

And also if lim g(x) = k and k≠0,
x→a
Then. lim 1/g(x) = 1/k
x→a

Now the problem arises...
Consider the limit
lim ((x^2)-(a^2))/(x-a)
x→a
It can factorised and written as( taking x-2 from numerator)
lim (x+a)
x→a
Which is nothing but 2a.
Now we can write it the above limit also as
lim(x^2)-(a^2) multiplied by
x→a
lim 1/(x-a)
x→a.

The second limit does not exist because
lim(x-a)=0 and l=0
x→a
So, its reciprocal limit does not exist.
Then can't we say
lim ((x^2)-(a^2))/(x-a) does not exist?
x→a
Where am I wrong in my argument?
 
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##\displaystyle\lim_{x\rightarrow a} {f(x)g(x)}=\lim_{x\rightarrow a} {f(x)}.\lim_{x\rightarrow a} {g(x)}## if the two limits in the RHS exist.
 
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Take ##f(x) = 1/x## and ##g(x) = 1/x^2##. By ##x\to\infty## both limits are zero. Then ##\lim_{x\to\infty}\frac{f(x)}{g(x)} =
\lim_{x\to\infty}\frac{g(x)}{f(x)} ## even exist or not. Change now reference system to ##x\to{x-a}##. Now limits are ##-1/a## and ##1/a^2##. Can existence of ##\lim_{x\to\infty}\frac{f(x)}{g(x)}## depends by reference system?
 
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But, i have not started on 'limit tends to infinity part'. I will start soon.
 
Alpharup said:
But, i have not started on 'limit tends to infinity part'. I will start soon.
Limit to infinity or not is irrelevant. The product rule assumes that the two limits exist.

Let's take a trivial example:
##f(x)=x-a##, ##g(x)=\frac{1}{x-a}##
Then ##\displaystyle\lim_{x\rightarrow a} {f(x)g(x)}=\displaystyle\lim_{x\rightarrow a} {1}=1##.
But ##\displaystyle\lim_{x\rightarrow a} g(x)= \lim_{x\rightarrow a} \frac{1}{x-a}## doesn't exist, so the expression ##\displaystyle\lim_{x\rightarrow a} f(x).\displaystyle\lim_{x\rightarrow a} g(x)## is not defined.
 
Samy_A said:
##\displaystyle\lim_{x\rightarrow a} {f(x)g(x)}=\lim_{x\rightarrow a} {f(x)}.\lim_{x\rightarrow a} {g(x)}## if the two limits in the RHS exist.
Yes, i get it. The original condition is the limits should exist. He stated before proving it.
A function f can be written as
f=gb or cd...where g,b, c and d are different functions of x.
let the limit of b as x approaches a, not exist. but for g,c,d the limts exist as x approaces a.
How can we justify the fact that limit of f as f approaches a
is nothing but (limit of c as x approaches a)×( limit of d as x approaches a)
and not (limit of g as x approaches a)×(limit of b as x approaches a)?
 
Alpharup said:
Yes, i get it. The original condition is the limits should exist. He stated before proving it.
A function f can be written as
f=gb or cd...where g,b, c and d are different functions of x.
let the limit of b as x approaches a, not exist. but for g,c,d the limts exist as x approaces a.
How can we justify the fact that limit of f as f approaches a
is nothing but (limit of c as x approaches a)×( limit of d as x approaches a)
and not (limit of g as x approaches a)×(limit of b as x approaches a)?
We justify it by noting that in your last expression, you "multiply" by something that doesn't exist.
 
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