Why does length contraction not cause Black holes?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of why length contraction, as described in the context of special relativity, does not lead to the formation of black holes when objects move at high speeds. Participants explore the implications of length contraction on the properties of protons and the gravitational effects associated with density changes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why protons do not become black holes when space contracts in their frame of reference, suggesting a contradiction in the effects of density changes on electromagnetic and gravitational forces.
  • Another participant explains that length contraction is a result of the relativity of simultaneity, emphasizing that it is not the physical contraction of space but rather a consequence of different observers' perceptions.
  • A further contribution clarifies that whether an object is a black hole is not frame-dependent and that spacetime curvature is determined by an object's stress-energy tensor, which remains invariant across frames.
  • It is noted that while density changes can affect electromagnetic forces, the gravitational effects are tied to the relative motion and the invariant nature of mass and stress-energy tensors.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between length contraction, density, and the formation of black holes. There is no consensus reached on the implications of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of relativistic effects and their interpretations, particularly regarding the definitions of density and force in different reference frames. The relationship between electromagnetic and gravitational forces in the context of high-speed motion remains nuanced and unresolved.

Justice Hunter
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So i was watching this video :



And it got me thinking... i began wondering why, when space contracts from someones frame of reference (In the video, this would be the frame of reference of the cat), why is it that the protons don't become black-holes when the space contracts?

If the density change has an effect on the electro-magnetic force, why would it not have any gravitational effects?

It seems to be contradictory, since from the reference frame of someone stationary, looking at the cat, there is no change in density of the protons in the wire, but instead, we see the cat contract. and we don't see things becoming black holes when moving at or near the speed of light, so i assume that the protons in the wire do not becomes black holes either.

So what is the reason length contraction doesn't create black holes in any reference frame?
 
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Length contraction arises because of the relativity of simultanity. So it's not because space itself contracts, but because every observer has it's own notion of 'simultanity', and because spatial length is defined via simultanious events one observes length contraction. The observed object itself doesn't care less about those observers.
 
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Justice Hunter said:
why is it that the protons don't become black-holes when the space contracts?

Because whether or not something is a black hole is not frame-dependent. The spacetime curvature an object produces is not due to its "density", which is frame-dependent; it is due to the object's stress-energy tensor, which is covariant. So an object's spacetime curvature doesn't change when you change frames.

Justice Hunter said:
If the density change has an effect on the electro-magnetic force, why would it not have any gravitational effects?

It's not the density change that affects the electromagnetic force; it's relative motion between the source and the object the source is acting on. Also, force is not the same as the source of the force. The EM force between a proton and an electron at rest relative to the proton will be different from the EM force between a proton and an electron moving past the proton at high speed. But the charge on the proton (the ultimate source of its EM force) does not change.

Similarly, the gravitational force between a massive body and an object at rest relative to it is different from the gravitational force between the same body and an object moving past it at high speed. But the body's mass, or more precisely its stress-energy tensor (the ultimate source of its gravitational force), does not change.
 
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Thanks guys i understand now i think!
 

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