Why does poly(ethelyne glycol) have a higher Tg than polyethylene?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the reasons why poly(ethylene glycol) (PEG) has a higher glass transition temperature (Tg) than polyethylene (PE). Participants explore various factors influencing Tg, including molecular structure, bond types, and polarity, within a theoretical context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the glass transition temperature is related to the free rotation of molecular units along the polymer chain, which is influenced by factors such as side group size, main chain components, and polarity.
  • One participant notes that polyethylene consists solely of C-C bonds, while polyethylene glycol includes C-O-C bonds, which may affect the spacing and rotation of the polymer chains.
  • A question is raised about whether C-O bonds rotate less freely than C-C bonds, potentially due to differences in electronic character between carbon and oxygen.
  • Another participant considers the size of side groups, arguing that while PE has small hydrogen side groups, PEG lacks side groups on oxygen, suggesting that steric effects might not significantly influence Tg.
  • It is proposed that C-O bonds might rotate more freely than C-C bonds, which could imply a lower melting temperature (Tm) for PEG, but this does not seem to correlate with Tg, leading to uncertainty about the relationship.
  • Polarity is discussed, with one participant noting that PEG is more polar than PE, which could contribute to increased viscosity and a lower Tg, although the focus on "side groups" in the context of polarity raises questions.
  • Another participant introduces the idea that the presence of electronegative groups, such as oxygen, leads to partial charges that affect molecular interactions and geometry, further complicating the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the factors influencing Tg, particularly regarding the roles of bond types, molecular polarity, and the significance of side groups. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing hypotheses presented.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made about bond rotation and the effects of polarity, as well as the definitions of side groups versus entire monomers, which have not been fully clarified or agreed upon.

triplej
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Can anyone tell me why poly(ethelyne glycol) has a higher Tg than polyethylene?
 
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The glass transition temperature is all about free rotation of the units along the chain.
Below some temperature they can no longer rotate - this is called the glass transition temperature.

The rotation depends upon many things

The size of the side groups
The components of the main chain
The polarity of side groups

In the case of polyethyene v polyethylene glycol

Polyethylene has all C-C bonds

Polyehtylene glycol has a C-0-C every so often. This spaces out the C-C repeat units.
 
Does that mean C-O bonds don't rotate as freely as C-C bonds, maybe an inequality in the electronic character of the C and O atoms that causes stiffness?
 
Above Tg the material is elastic.

Below Tg the material is glassy (rigid).


Below some temperature they can no longer rotate

The glassy state occurs when the chains loose their ability to rotate about their bonds.

Does that mean C-O bonds don't rotate as freely as C-C bonds, maybe an inequality in the electronic character of the C and O atoms that causes stiffness?

So would you like to reconsider this?
 
Studiot said:
The glass transition temperature is all about free rotation of the units along the chain.
Below some temperature they can no longer rotate - this is called the glass transition temperature.

The rotation depends upon many things

The size of the side groups
The components of the main chain
The polarity of side groups

I'll consider these three things you've mentioned.

Size of side groups:

PE has very small side groups in the H atoms, while PEG has no side groups on the O. This would imply that PE might have slightly more hindered rotation, meaning a higher glass transition than PEG, however this is not the case, so the steric effect of the H groups must be negligible.

Components of the main chain:

C-O bonds rotate more freely than C-C bonds, leading to a lowering of PEG's Tm which is observed. This also might imply a lowering of Tg however this is not observed so it is not true.

Polarity of side groups:

There are no side groups to speak of in either case, besides the H of PE, which are extremely non polar. If we were to consider the polarity of not only side groups, but of entire monomers, we would find PEG to be quite a bit more polar than PE. However, since the wording is "polarity of side groups" I am hesitant to do this. Still, if we were to consider this the main factor, it would mean increased viscosity in PEG and explain the lowered Tg.

So despite the wording, it must be a polarity issue. So, why is it explicitly defined as "side groups" and not "monomers"? (it is written the same in one of my textbooks) Or have i made some other mistake?
 
The polarity issue arises when we introduce highly electronegative groups or molecules such as chlorine or oxygen. This leads to a partial electron shift with the carbon \delta +ve and the other \delta-ve.

In the case under discussion oxygen has two (negative) lone pairs sticking out instead of side groups.
The geometry of C-O-C is different from C-C-C because of this.
 

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