Why doesn't Newton define F=m(a^2)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of why Newton defined force as F=ma, exploring alternative formulations such as F=m*(a^2) or F=(m^2)*a. Participants examine the nature of force, its definition, and the implications of Newton's laws of motion.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that Newton's formulation of F=ma is based on observations rather than a simple definition.
  • Others propose that force is defined by the rate of change of momentum with respect to time, suggesting F = k(dp/dt) where k is a constant.
  • There are claims that nature, rather than Newton, defines the relationship between force and motion.
  • Some participants highlight the historical context, noting that Aristotle had a different conception of force, which necessitated a clear definition in scientific terms.
  • A participant presents a reasoning process involving the principles of relativity and the implications of force on motion, questioning why F=ma does not include other derivatives of position.
  • There are discussions about the implications of defining mass and how it relates to the formulation of force.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the definitions and the philosophical implications of whether definitions are human constructs or inherent to nature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the definition of force or the reasoning behind Newton's formulation. Multiple competing views remain, with ongoing debate about the nature of force and its definitions.

Contextual Notes

Participants express various assumptions about the definitions of force and mass, and there are unresolved questions regarding the implications of different formulations of force. The discussion reflects a range of interpretations and historical perspectives.

  • #31
Andrew Mason said:
Galileo attributed changes in motion to forces in a general way. But, at least in my understanding, it was not Galileo but Newton who attributed gravitational accelerations to gravitational forces. Galileo determined that in the absence of friction or resistance, all objects fall at the same rate. He determined that the relationship between time, t, of fall and height, h, of fall of an object was h = at^2/2. But Galileo did not conclude that they fall at the same rate due to gravitational force being proportional to mass.

AM

Ahh so it was Newton who made the connection. But I still don't see how he'd figured a way to have a relative scale of forces. Did Newton use the weights of the bodies or something like spring scales to do this?

Also, based on DH's post Newton seemed to have related the change in momentum to the force, without reference to it's rate change with respect to time. If this is the case, how did we come to interpret it as \textit{F}\propto{\frac{Δp}{Δt}}?
 
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  • #32
Also, was weight seen as the force due to gravity by Galileo's time? I've read that there was confusion among physicists at the time about the nature of weight; I wasn't sure if it was seen as synonymous with the gravitational force though.
 
  • #33
AlonsoMcLaren said:
Why did Newton define force as F=ma instead of stuff like F=m*(a^2) or F=(m^2)*a?

Newton needed to name the quantity ma because it entered into the physical description of things. Since ma corresponds to our intuitive notion of force, he named it force.
 

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