Why Doesn't Water Leak Out of Dialysis Tubing?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanics of dialysis tubing and why water does not leak out when filled with air, despite the pore size being larger than water molecules. Participants explore concepts related to surface tension, pore size, and the behavior of liquids in porous membranes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the dialysis membrane has pores that prevent larger molecules from moving out, raising the question of why water does not leak out despite its smaller size.
  • One participant inquires about the surface tension of water, suggesting it plays a role in keeping water inside the tubing.
  • Another participant explains that surface tension holds water inside the bag until it is submerged in buffer, where the dynamics change.
  • A question is raised regarding the pore size at which surface tension would no longer prevent water from leaking out, along with a request for relevant equations.
  • One participant provides a formula relating surface tension and pore diameter to the pressure required for flow through the pores.
  • Another participant estimates that the pore diameter would need to be around 0.2 to 0.3 mm for water to leak out, suggesting this as a rough ballpark figure.
  • One participant expresses appreciation for the insights gained from the discussion, indicating a resolution to a prior misunderstanding about dialysis membranes.
  • A later reply mentions that the dialysis tubing is semi-porous and interacts with a dialysis solution, which can be tailored for specific outcomes, hinting at the complexity of the system.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying viewpoints on the role of surface tension and pore size, with no consensus reached on the exact conditions under which water would leak from the tubing.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the implications of pore size and surface tension without resolving the mathematical details or assumptions involved in their calculations.

Sascha_K
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The way I think about it, the dialysis membrane basically has holes in it of a given size which keep molecules larger than the holes from moving out.

My question is, since the pore size of the tubing is always bigger than the size of water molecules, why doesn't water leak out of the dialysis tubing when you are filling it in air?
 
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What's the surface tension of water?
 
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Aha! I see! Thanks for clearing that up for me!
 
So essentially the surface tension is holding the water inside the bag until it is placed in the buffer, upon which the surface tension is no longer applicable (surface tension of water against air is 71.97 dyn/cm at 25 C)
 
I now have another question: At what pore size will the surface tension fail and allow water to leak out of the bag? Or at least, what are the appropriate equations for calculating such a problem.
 
Assuming a circular x-section for a pore (or a spherical chicken), ηπd (η = surface tension, d = pore dia.) is the force holding liquid in the pore, and force/area (ηπd/{πd2/4}) is pressure required for flow through the pore(s).
 
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Using a 10 cm long dialysis tube, I roughly estimate that the diameter of the pore would need to be in the vicinity of 0.2 to 0.3 mm
 
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Looks like a decent ballpark number.
 
You are awesome dude. Not only have you helped me with understanding this (heretofore) seeming contradiction of how dialysis membranes work, but you also helped resolve a friendly argument with a co-worker. Physic forums is awesome, thanks to people like you! :)
 
  • #10
The tubing is a semi porous membrane but remember it runs through a dialysis solution, the content of which can be altered depending on what you want to achieve. The solution exerts an osmotic pull on the waste in the blood removing them. Modern systems can add specific filters to remove certain drugs etc.
 

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