Why don't gravitational waves get distorted?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of gravitational waves and their interaction with matter and spacetime, specifically why they are perceived as not being distorted compared to other types of waves like light. The scope includes theoretical considerations and conceptual clarifications regarding gravitational wave propagation and interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference Kip Thorne's assertion that gravitational waves are not distorted by intervening matter, questioning the basis for this claim.
  • One participant suggests that gravitational wave solutions to the linearized Einstein Field Equations (EFE) have low amplitudes, leading to minimal interactions with matter.
  • Another participant argues that gravitational waves are fundamentally distortions of spacetime itself, which differentiates them from other waves.
  • Contrarily, some participants assert that gravitational waves can indeed be distorted, similar to light, but note that the interactions are too small to be significant.
  • A participant raises the concept of self-gravity distortion, seeking clarification on the type of distortion being discussed.
  • High frequency gravitational waves are mentioned as following null geodesics, potentially experiencing effects like focusing, while lower frequency waves emitted from collapsing objects may not emerge undistorted due to backscattering effects.
  • There is a suggestion that lower frequency gravitational waves might be distorted less than high frequency ones, with some participants questioning whether the distortion from multiple sources is insignificant compared to Schwarzschild backscatter.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether gravitational waves can be distorted. Some argue they can be, while others maintain that they are not distorted in the same way as light. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the nature of gravitational wave interactions.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the interactions of gravitational waves with matter are extremely small in magnitude, and there is uncertainty regarding the significance of distortion effects, particularly in relation to different frequencies of gravitational waves and their propagation through varying gravitational fields.

Naty1
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In BLACK HOLES AND TIME WARPS Kip Thorne writes:

...Light, X-rays and radio waves (produced far outside the hole's horizon)...can be strongly distorted by propagating through intervening matter, they can bring us but little information about the (black) hole...The ripples of curvature (gravitational waves) [from the black hole], by contrast, are not at all distorted by propagating through intervening matter...and as a consequence they can bring us detailed information...and an unequivocal black hole signature...

So why is it that gravitational waves alone are "not at all distorted"??

For example, don't they combine [maybe even non linearly] with other gravitational waves?...they must interact with matter, otherwise we wouldn't be able to detect them...

thanks.
 
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He is saying that because gravitational wave solutions to the linearized EFE's have very low amplitudes. Their interactions with matter are extremely small in magnitude, for example on the order of 10^-21 for certain interactions.
 
Gravitational waves can't be "distorted" in the same sense as light, radio and other waves because they are "distortions" of the underlying spacetime. Gravity waves are propagating changes in spacetime, they basically are spacetime.
 
Gravitational waves most certainly can be distorted, the same way as light. WannabeNewton is correct in that the interaction is too small to be significant.
 
Are you talking about self-gravity distortion? Otherwise I'm not sure we're talking about the same kind of distortion.
 
High frequency gravitational waves follow null geodesics, which can produce the effects usually associated with light such as focusing and caustic surfaces.

However what we're talking about here is the lower frequency waves emitted by a collapsing object. And the idea that such waves emerge undistorted is incorrect. As gravitational waves climb out of the surrounding Schwarzschild field they will backscatter, forming a prolonged 'tail' that persists even after the source has stopped.
 
Ah, I see. Thank you!
 
I think Kip Thorne was talking about low frequency gravitational waves...

Bill_K:
Gravitational waves most certainly can be distorted, the same way as light. WannabeNewton is correct in that the interaction is too small to be significant...

High frequency gravitational waves follow null geodesics, which can produce the effects usually associated with light such as focusing and caustic surfaces.

However what we're talking about here is the lower frequency waves emitted by a collapsing object...

Some distortion makes sure makes sense...never heard of any wave that wouldn't be.

So are we saying that lower frequency gravitational waves are distorted less than high, and that distortion of lower frequency waves is "insignificant"...??

When I posted I was particularly thinking about gravitational waves interacting...say from multiple star collapses to black holes across the universe...and gravitational waves from dual pairs of objects...and from rotating massive black holes at galactic centers...Is it believed these types of interactions are insignificant compared to Schwarzschild backscatter??
 

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