Why Don't We Feel the Universe's Expansion?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the reasons why the expansion of the universe is not felt on smaller scales, exploring both theoretical and conceptual aspects of cosmic expansion and its effects on objects within the universe.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the expansion of the universe is very small and not noticeable at local scales, with one participant estimating a rate of 0.00005% per year.
  • It is proposed that since everything in the universe expands, we do not notice this expansion in our immediate surroundings.
  • One participant questions how the expansion can be detected if it does not affect the distances between objects held together by forces like electromagnetism or gravity.
  • Another participant agrees that the expansion of space does not affect the size of ordinary objects or bound systems, emphasizing that it primarily affects large-scale distances between unbound galaxies.
  • There is a mention of the effect of expansion on the wavelength of light, suggesting that while distances between galaxies can increase, the physical size of objects remains unchanged due to the forces holding them together.
  • A participant reinforces the idea that the current rate of expansion is negligible for small distances, providing a specific rate of 1/140 of a percent every million years.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the expansion of the universe is not felt on small scales due to the forces that hold objects together. However, there is some debate regarding the implications of this expansion and how it can be observed.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the exact mechanisms of how expansion interacts with forces at different scales, and there are unresolved questions about the implications of cosmic expansion on observable phenomena.

Manicwhale
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I can think of two reasons:

1. Expansion is very small, and therefore not noticeable. That is, space expands by 0.00005% in a year (which does not rule out the universe expanding by say, a million light years in a year), so we don't feel it.
2. Everything expands, so we don't notice it. But then... how did we discover it?

Perhaps I'm partially right, but can someone give a thourough explanation?
 
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The first is true. It is only noticeable at large distance scales.
 
Thanks.

Also, in terms of why we'd notice it at any scale, would it be right to say that while space expands, certain forces (e.g. EM, or gravity on larger scales) keep objects (e.g. the earth, or galaxies on larger scales) together, so that the distances (as measured by the length of a given object) between objects increase?
 
Manicwhale said:
Thanks.

Also, in terms of why we'd notice it at any scale, would it be right to say that while space expands, certain forces (e.g. EM, or gravity on larger scales) keep objects (e.g. the earth, or galaxies on larger scales) together, so that the distances (as measured by the length of a given object) between objects [do not] increase?

did you mean to say "do not increase"?

In that case I would say that you are right. the expansion of space does not affect the size of ordinary objects, or even things as large as the solar system and our galaxy.

As long as they are held together by physical forces or form bound systems.

the expansion of distances can affect smallscale stuff like the wavelength of light, but the undulation track of a wave is not an object held together by forces like a steel rod. the undulations can get stretched out by expansion, over a long period of time

but typically I think of expansion of distances as affecting only really largescale distance like 100 million LY between galaxies that have nothing to do with each other (not part of some gravitationally bound assembly). Probably 10 million LY is far enough.

I think you have it right but just forgot to type in a couple of words
==================

To reinforce what Russ Watters said. the current rate of expansion is only 1/140 of a percent every million years
or one percent every 140 million years. So for small distances it would be neglible.
 
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