Why is a Big Back Advantageous for Delivering Mechanical Power?

[Username34]

It is said that individuals with large back/spinal structure have a distinct advantage at delivering power, all else equal.

My question is why in concrete terms this is advantegous if the weight and speed of another individuals is similar?

Has a person with larger back stronger support to push through the target, so that he can deliver more mass into the target?

Or is it related to generating kinetic energy?

 

[Baluncore]

It is said that individuals with large back/spinal structure have a distinct advantage at delivering power, all else equal.

Welcome to PF.
It may have been said, but where has it been written?
Is this about boxing, or also about walking up hills?

 

[Username34]

Welcome to PF.
It may have been said, but where has it been written?
Is this about boxing, or also about walking up hills?

Quora section on mechanical power in martial arts. I can't find the post. What is your first intuitive reaction to why a larger back gives an advantage in delivering mechanical power? Is it momentum or strength related? Can an average back not utilize as much strength in the joints? Or can they not generate as much momentum in the action?

 

[Username34]

Why wouldn't an average sized back be able to torque as much?

To me it seems more strength related (the pushing action of the mechanical delivery).

The stronger your back is, the more support you have behind the "pull" or "push" into the target.

But that's just my guess.

 

[Baluncore]

Your legs contact the floor. Your arms apply the force. The line between your hips must be coupled to the line between your shoulders. What connects them if it is not your back and your stomach muscles in tension, with your spine in compression.

 

[Username34]

Your legs contact the floor. Your arms apply the force. The line between your hips must be coupled to the line between your shoulders. What connects them if it is not your back and your stomach muscles in tension, with your spine in compression.

But why is the exact structure of those muscles relevant to delivering power?

 

[Baluncore]

You are not hitting the target with the weight of the back, it's the weight of the arm or leg

But to accelerate your arm, you must put your back into it.

 

[Username34]

Most wrestlers have wide backs, so it's clearly related to strength.

But is it strength in terms of delivering mass or delivering energy, or both?

 

[Baluncore]

But is it strength in terms of delivering mass or delivering energy, or both?

Neither.
You are delivering momentum, the product of mass and velocity.

 

[russ_watters]

Most wrestlers have wide backs, so it's clearly related to strength.

Wrestlers don't punch/push, they pull. Different (opposite) set of muscles.

 

[Username34]

Wrestlers don't punch/push, they pull. Different (opposite) set of muscles.

They push when shooting for a takedown.

 

[Username34]

Neither.
You are delivering momentum, the product of mass and velocity.

Why can't an average back do that just as well?

 

[berkeman]

They push when shooting for a takedown.

So what? Speaking as a former wrestler (and a pretty good one), most of the strength moves are pulling moves, as Russ suggests.

 

[Rive]

It is said that individuals with large back/spinal structure have a distinct advantage at delivering power

Exactly where it is said? In what context?
What I know is about the muscles around the whole torso keeping together/producing the base (mass) for movement, not only the back.

 

[Baluncore]

Why can't an average back do that just as well?

If you can accelerate more mass to a greater velocity, you can deliver more momentum to the opposition, then watch them retire, while you stand there.

 

[russ_watters]

They push when shooting for a takedown.

No, they don't. They pull their opponent's legs toward them. The "shoot" is just reaching to grab the legs - no strength involved.

-Also a pretty good wrestler.

 

[berkeman]

-Also a pretty good wrestler.

This means nothing without pictures.

(digging through my old yearbooks...)

 

[russ_watters]

This means nothing without pictures.

Ow, my arm! You're twisting it! Stahp! Ok, fine, here it is:

I'm the one in front. Yes, I won. This was one of two times I made the paper, and my mom bought and framed the print. In fairness though, I was engaging my left pect in this photo, not my back.

[edit]
On second thought, I was pulling my left arm forward, but also pushing back up into my opponent with my legs, which would engage my back muscles as well.

 

[Mondayman]

No, they don't. They pull their opponent's legs toward them. The "shoot" is just reaching to grab the legs - no strength involved.

-Also a pretty good wrestler.

They push when shooting for a takedown.

The push is coming from their legs, independent of back/arms. I was into boxing, and I got dropped on my head by good wrestlers more than once.

 

[russ_watters]

The push is coming from their legs, independent of back/arms.

Yes, that's true, the wrestler is pushing himself forwards and hopefully through the opponent with his legs. But my interpretation of the OP was that it was referring to upper body pushes/punches. These are very different motions. Rereading, the OP is far from clear, other than focusing on the back.

 

[Borek]

Broadly speaking this sounds like a sports biomechanics question - and, in an also broad sense - it is just a matter of applying laws of mechanics to a body seen as a system of joints, levers and effectors.

So, start with a good understanding of the Newton mechanics (part of training of any physicist or mechanical engineer), draw the schematics of the body with long bones as levers and joints as rotation points (basic anatomy), see what kind of forces/moments you are looking for, see how to get them from the system and how to optimize the system to make them higher. You will find that you need a stronger effector here, a longer lever there - just translate these into the overall frame.

 

[pinball1970]

Ow, my arm! You're twisting it! Stahp! Ok, fine, here it is:

View attachment 330873

I'm the one in front. Yes, I won. This was one of two times I made the paper, and my mom bought and framed the print. In fairness though, I was engaging my left pect in this photo, not my back.

[edit]
On second thought, I was pulling my left arm forward, but also pushing back up into my opponent with my legs, which would engage my back muscles as well.

That's a great picture!

 

[pinball1970]

Quora section on mechanical power in martial arts. I can't find the post. What is your first intuitive reaction to why a larger back gives an advantage in delivering mechanical power? Is it momentum or strength related? Can an average back not utilize as much strength in the joints? Or can they not generate as much momentum in the action?

Read all the replies, all relevant and I will add this.
If you have a skinny back, you may have a skinny something else.
Train all of your body parts, you cannot ring fence your lats for instance without training your arms when you are doing chins.
You cannot train your legs doing squats without involving your back.
You cannot train your chest doing bench press with out training your front delts, triceps, forearms and hands!

Ask the gym instructor, get the right diet and you will get stronger and bigger all over, not just your lats.

 

[hutchphd]

A lot of the strength in wrestling involves lifting and twisting your torso by pushing on the floor with hands and feet. The upper body leverage is facilitated by broad shoulders. I was a very bad wrestler in high school and understand too well the physics of "sitting out" as an escape move. Also "bridging" to avoid the pin......