Why is it claimed that Betz's limit is a law?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of Betz's limit in wind energy conversion, examining its classification as a "law" and the implications of various turbine designs, including Darrieus type turbines and sailboats. Participants explore theoretical and practical aspects of energy extraction from wind, mechanical stresses on turbine blades, and the efficiency of different systems.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that while Betz's limit theory is valid, it should not be classified as a law, as many sources incorrectly claim.
  • There is a discussion about the efficiency of piezoelectric systems and whether they could theoretically double the power coefficient of Betz.
  • One participant questions how to define efficiency for turbines with varying geometry, suggesting that the Betz limit applies differently to stationary turbines compared to wind-powered vehicles.
  • Concerns are raised about the interpretation of mechanical stresses in wind turbines and sailboats, with some arguing that bending stresses cannot be continuously converted into energy without performing work.
  • Another participant challenges the assertion that a yacht equipped with hydrofoils can move faster, emphasizing the balance of forces acting on a sailboat and the role of the keel in stability and motion.
  • There is a clarification that the power coefficient is not dependent on wind speed, countering the idea that turbines stop due to reaching Betz's limit.
  • Participants discuss the mechanics of energy conversion in turbines, noting that reducing kinetic energy to zero would prevent energy recovery, thus supporting the existence of a maximum energy extraction point defined by Betz's limit.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the classification of Betz's limit, the mechanics of wind turbines, and the implications of mechanical stresses. The discussion remains unresolved with no consensus on several key points.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the efficiency of turbines with varying geometries and the assumptions underlying the application of Betz's limit to different systems. There are unresolved mathematical and conceptual challenges regarding energy extraction and mechanical stress conversion.

  • #31
normandajc said:
For Darrieus type turbines, the stresses vary during each turn. You do have a notion of time. It is possible to transform constraints into additional energy recovery.
Time varying stress still isn't energy.

I agree with @Arjan82 ; at best, you are trying to use the same energy twice, and glossing-over it.

Since evidently this is your own unpublished "personal theory", it is not appropriate for discussion on PF. If you get it published in a reputable journal we can discuss it further, but I don't think publication is likely since it appears to suggest a violation of conservation of energy.
 
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