Why is tension (T) only added to one side of an Atwood Machine?

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanics of an Atwood machine, specifically addressing the application of tension and forces on the masses involved. The original poster is exploring why tension is only added to one side of the system when a force is applied.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to understand the implications of adding a force to one mass and questions whether the same force should also be applied to the other mass due to their connection.
  • Some participants suggest analogies, such as a see-saw, to illustrate how forces affect balance differently depending on where they are applied.
  • Others note that the equations reflect the force balance on the masses and that the change in tension is influenced by the applied force on only one side.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing analogies and insights to clarify the original poster's confusion. There is recognition of the complexity of the question, and participants are exploring different interpretations of how forces and tension interact in the system.

Contextual Notes

The original poster mentions having spent considerable time on the problem and refers to specific values and outcomes, indicating a structured approach to the analysis. The discussion includes a suggestion to test the concepts with simple examples to enhance understanding.

PhysicsCanuck
Messages
19
Reaction score
1
Homework Statement
Suppose in the same Atwood setup another string is attached to the bottom of m1 and a constant force f is applied, retarding the upward motion of m1.

If m1 = 5.00 kg and m2 = 10.00 kg, what value of f will reduce the acceleration of the system by 50%?
Relevant Equations
T = m1*a1 + m1*g
T = m2*a2 + m2*g
4-18.gif
I solved for a1 prior to the force (f) being added.

-a1 = a2

and

T = m1*a1 + m1*g
T = m2*a2 + m2*g <--substitute -a1 = a2, multiply everything by -1, add the two equations in order to solve for a1 (and thus also a2)

T = m1*a1 + m1*g
-T = m2*a1 - m2*g

0 = m1*a1 + m1*g + m2*a1 - m2*g <-- substitute known values (m1 = 5.00kg, m2 = 10.00kg, g=9.8m/s^2), solve for a1
a1 = +3.266 m/s^2 (and thus a2 = -3.266 m/s^2)

The question then states a 50% reduction, so 3.266/2 = 1.633 m/s^2 for the following equations.
After grinding through this for hours (and knowing the final solution to be 24.5N), I was able to determine the following:

T' = m1*a1 + m1*g + F
T' = m2*a2 + m2*g

Since we know m1, m2, a1, a2, and g, we can solve for F, where F = 24.5NMy question is as follows: Since a force (and thus a tension) is being added to m1 (and thereby increasing the tension experienced in the line/rope/cable, wouldn't I also add that same force value to m2 since it is also experiencing more tension as they are connected and inextensible.

Can anyone explain this and help me better understand?

Thank you very much.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Delta2
Physics news on Phys.org
Hello Canuck, ##\qquad## :welcome: ##\qquad## !

PhysicsCanuck said:
My question is as follows: Since a force (and thus a tension) is being added to m1 (and thereby increasing the tension experienced in the line/rope/cable, wouldn't I also add that same force value to m2 since it is also experiencing more tension as they are connected and inextensible.
Seems so sensible, doesn't it ?
But the extra F is really applied on one side only.
Compare with a see-saw: the balance shifts if you add an extra weight on one side only. And it shifts differently if you instead add it on the other side. Same with your Atwood machine.

'Try' it out for yourself with a simple example, e.g. when m1 = m2

(i.e. a given F on m1 side versus same F on m2 side )
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: PhysicsCanuck
The equations correspond to the force balance on the masses. The force is only acting on one mass. The change in the total force on the second mass is due to the change in the tension, which will be different in the two cases.
 
BvU said:
Hello Canuck, ##\qquad## :welcome: ##\qquad## !

Seems so sensible, doesn't it ?
But the extra F is really applied on one side only.
Compare with a see-saw: the balance shifts if you add an extra weight on one side only. And it shifts differently if you instead add it on the other side. Same with your Atwood machine.

'Try' it out for yourself with a simple example, e.g. when m1 = m2

(i.e. a given F on m1 side versus same F on m2 side )
Thank you very much.
This type of question is novel for me, so I guess it will become clearer with time and more practiced examples.
Cheers
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 97 ·
4
Replies
97
Views
17K
Replies
18
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
3K