Why is the downward force on 1kg in a force pulley system 60N?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a force pulley system involving a 1 kg mass and its interaction with other masses. Participants are exploring the forces acting on the 1 kg mass, particularly questioning the calculation of the downward force being 60N, which seems counterintuitive to some. The context includes concepts of tension, weight, and net forces in a dynamic system.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to clarify the forces acting on the 1 kg mass, including weight and tension. There are questions about the interpretation of the "downward non-net force" and how it relates to the overall system dynamics. Some participants suggest considering the entire system's acceleration and the implications for tension in the strings.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with various interpretations being explored. Some participants have provided insights into the forces at play, while others are questioning the reasoning behind the calculations and assumptions made regarding the forces acting on the masses. There is no explicit consensus yet, but productive dialogue is occurring.

Contextual Notes

Participants are grappling with the implications of the system's acceleration and the forces involved, including the tension in the strings and the weight of the masses. There are references to specific values and calculations that may not be fully agreed upon, indicating a need for further clarification and exploration of the assumptions made.

aspodkfpo
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If a free body diagram is constructed for 1kg, one might be inclined to draw an arrow downwards with only the weight of 10N. However, the downward, non-net, force on 1 kg is (1+5) x 9.8. Why is this the case? It seems very counterintuitive.
 
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aspodkfpo said:
Homework Statement:: n/a
Relevant Equations:: n/a

View attachment 267189

If a free body diagram is constructed for 1kg, one might be inclined to draw an arrow downwards with only the weight of 10N. However, the downward, non-net, force on 1 kg is (1+5) x 9.8. Why is this the case? It seems very counterintuitive.
It is not true, you misunderstood something. There are to forces acting on the 1 kg mass, its weight, 1*g downward, and the tension T1 in the string, upward.
 
ehild said:
It is not true, you misunderstood something. There are to forces acting on the 1 kg mass, its weight, 1*g downward, and the tension T1 in the string, upward.
Consider the entire system.
(1+5) x 10 is the force acting on the entire system. This means that the system travels with an acceleration of 5ms^-2. The tension in the string to the right of 6kg is 30N. 5kg has to have a net force of 25N, so between 5kg and 1kg, string is at 55N. 1kg has to travel at 5ms^-2, so downwards on 1kg is 60N.

I don't quite see how it is intuitive to realize it is 60N pointing in the downward direction on the 1kg.
 
Cut the string between the two hanging masses and remove the smallest mass.
How much force your hand should pull down the section of remaining string hanging from mass 5kg to keep the original tension in longer string?
 
aspodkfpo said:
Homework Statement:: n/a
Relevant Equations:: n/a

View attachment 267189

If a free body diagram is constructed for 1kg, one might be inclined to draw an arrow downwards with only the weight of 10N. However, the downward, non-net, force on 1 kg is (1+5) x 9.8. Why is this the case? It seems very counterintuitive.
I can think of two forces acting on the 1-kg mass: The tension in the string (up) which is exerted by the string and gravity (down) which is exerted by the Earth. Their sum is the net force and that is directed down. What force is the "downward non-net force" and what entity exerts it?
 
aspodkfpo said:
Consider the entire system.
(1+5) x 10 is the force acting on the entire system. This means that the system travels with an acceleration of 5ms^-2. The tension in the string to the right of 6kg is 30N. 5kg has to have a net force of 25N,
correct so far, but wrong after.
aspodkfpo said:
so between 5kg and 1kg, string is at 55N. 1kg has to travel at 5ms^-2, so downwards on 1kg is 60N.

I don't quite see how it is intuitive to realize it is 60N pointing in the downward direction on the 1kg.
There are three forces acting on the 5 kg mass. The tension in the upper string, 30 N upwards
the weight, 50 N, downwards
and the tension T1, connecting 5kg an 1 kg. It acts downward. The 5 kg mass accelerates downward with 5m/s2, so the net force acting on it is T1+50-30=25 N. what is the value of T1 then?
 
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