Wind Turbines on Cars: Benefits & Challenges

[Caladorcp]

That whole "don't jump me when I say this" thing was because I know I don't know much about this subject, and I was looking for people to be understanding that I am not knowledgeable in this subject. Just saying, no need to point out my obvious lack of knowledge like I'm some idiot.

 

[russ_watters]

You guys don't have to act like I'm stupid.

We weren't trying to make you feel stupid, but we do get somewhat irritated when people post in threads without reading them! (especially relatively short ones!). This question also comes up a lot, so people get a little fatigued seeing it over and over.

 

[Caladorcp]

Well as you should be able to tell, this being my 7th post EVER, I was not aware of this question being asked over and over, I just joined the site. And no I didn't read EVERY post, but you don't have to be rude about it. You could just say something like "That was previously discussed, you may want to look back at the previous comments" or something of that nature. Then I probably would have just looked back, problem solved. Anyway, this isn't what this thread is about so I'll stop with the proper manners stuff lol.

 

[Unrest]

That whole "don't jump me when I say this" thing was because I know I don't know much about this subject, and I was looking for people to be understanding that I am not knowledgeable in this subject. Just saying, no need to point out my obvious lack of knowledge like I'm some idiot.

Sorry if I offended you too. I thought I was being reasonable :P

However the behind the grill idea might not be too terrible. There was a somewhat new style of superbike made once (Britten?) that reduced drag by eliminating the grill and putting the radiator somewhere more aerodynamic. That suggests the grill could be a source of power loss for cars too. Maybe if the radiator were spread along the sides of the car and the otherwise wasted losses from the grill were used to generate power you might come out ahead of a normal car.

However if you put the radiator somewhere else, you might as well close off the grill entirely and save even more power, so it's back to being less efficient with a wind turbine in there.

 

[Caladorcp]

Sorry if I offended you too. I thought I was being reasonable :P

However the behind the grill idea might not be too terrible. There was a somewhat new style of superbike made once (Britten?) that reduced drag by eliminating the grill and putting the radiator somewhere more aerodynamic. That suggests the grill could be a source of power loss for cars too. Maybe if the radiator were spread along the sides of the car and the otherwise wasted losses from the grill were used to generate power you might come out ahead of a normal car.

However if you put the radiator somewhere else, you might as well close off the grill entirely and save even more power, so it's back to being less efficient with a wind turbine in there.

Apology accepted, that's what I hate about posts, you can't read into someones words very well. After looking up some stats on some small turbines I thought probably any turbine small enough to fit behind the grill of a car wouldn't produce much power anyway. It's a cool thought though (putting a turbine in the grill),
some other adjustments of the car would be necessary to achieve it. (adjustments of which I'm not sure of, I'm not a mechanic lol). I might have to take a closer look at the inner workings of an electric car first before I call this idea "dead."

That's cool with the superbike. I'm actually want to buy a motorcycle myself :), but school comes first. Paying for a motorcycle isn't in the budget right now lol.

 

[microsoftMan]

I think you misunderstood me. But you see the point. from 89 to 02 it hasn't improved in any noticeable way, despite the change from carbs to fuel injection and all the rest. Those improvements are counteracted by it being heavier, which I suppose may be a combination of safety and fashion.

If the car weighs almost 750 pounds more and gets the same gas mileage - then we have made significant improvements in fuel efficiency in ~20 years. That's not even arguable, it is a fact.

Force = (Mass) (Acceleration)

In this case the mass and the acceleration have increased significantly, therefore the force required to propel the car is much greater yet both cars get the same gas mileage.

 

[Averagesupernova]

Caladorcp, we get people that post in these threads asking all kinds of questions expecting various types of replies. Don't expect us to read your mind in order to know what type of reply you want. Most folks want a real answer with an explanation as to why it won't work. And then some of them go on to say why they disagree and then say it will work. Funny thing that is, it makes me wonder why they asked in the first place.
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BUT, not many people come on here like you. You posed a scenario first. Then you said you just wanted a yes or no answer and a simple explanation which you got from me along with reassurance that you are definitely among many others that have had the same idea. You are NOT alone. Then you complain about other posters making you feel stupid. In my opinion everyone has given you just what you asked in the first place. If you feel stupid, it is not our fault and quite honestly I cannot understand why you feel that way since as I previously stated, many other people make the same assumption.
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Last thought: As many of these discussions as I have watched, no one EVER comes up with the idea of putting a sail on a vehicle. Not really practical in city driving, but the point still stands.

 

[microsoftMan]

Caladorcp, we get people that post in these threads asking all kinds of questions expecting various types of replies. Don't expect us to read your mind in order to know what type of reply you want. Most folks want a real answer with an explanation as to why it won't work. And then some of them go on to say why they disagree and then say it will work. Funny thing that is, it makes me wonder why they asked in the first place.
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BUT, not many people come on here like you. You posed a scenario first. Then you said you just wanted a yes or no answer and a simple explanation which you got from me along with reassurance that you are definitely among many others that have had the same idea. You are NOT alone. Then you complain about other posters making you feel stupid. In my opinion everyone has given you just what you asked in the first place. If you feel stupid, it is not our fault and quite honestly I cannot understand why you feel that way since as I previously stated, many other people make the same assumption.
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Last thought: As many of these discussions as I have watched, no one EVER comes up with the idea of putting a sail on a vehicle. Not really practical in city driving, but the point still stands.

Well actually I proposed a scenario completely different than the guy who hijacked my thread. He didn't even bother to read what had already been said so if he feels stupid/ignorant maybe the 'shoe fits'.

Adding a sail is an interesting idea but there are already teams of researchers competing for land speed records with wind-powered vehicles. Of course it's possible but like you said, really impractical for city driving. I can imagine a light turning green and waiting for a gust of wind to start a slow crawl across the intersection.

I've also seen a car in Australia, I believe, that had a retractable kite to help harness wind power - also not practical for mass transit. There is also another neat concept using kites where a very large kite is allowed to un-spool a large amount of wire, spinning a flywheel to generate power. I believe the kite is then retracted when the wind is not as intense.

 

[Unrest]

If the car weighs almost 750 pounds more and gets the same gas mileage - then we have made significant improvements in fuel efficiency in ~20 years. That's not even arguable, it is a fact.

Who's arguing it? That's consistent with what I said. Despite improvements in efficiency, mileage hasn't improved, and that's what you pay for in fuel costs.

 

[247killingtim]

I haven't really seen much commenting on the idea of implementing some kind of turbine generator during braking, but I could definitely see such a system working when applied at the right time. A very noticeable effect of the generator in a hybrid is its lack of ability to coast. I'm sure a similar effect would be observed if some kind of turbine was placed strategically along the outside of the car. If carefully applied some force could be generated while the brakes are being used.

 

[Unrest]

implementing some kind of turbine generator during braking,

Most of this thread has been about that. As you vaguely suggested, the generator already does this, so deploying a wind turbing during braking would only take away from the more efficient power already available from regenerative braking.

 

[247killingtim]

Most of this thread has been about that. As you vaguely suggested, the generator already does this, so deploying a wind turbing during braking would only take away from the more efficient power already available from regenerative braking.

I hate to throw in anecdotal evidence but in my experience, the regenerative braking currently uses permanent magnets; the timing aspect of the generation isn't there, which lowers your ability to coast. A wind turbine that could be deployed at the right times and be activated more easily, and have lower losses. Then again I don't know if the gains would be worth implementing it, and modifying the current designs would probably be more effective. It would be interesting to use it to increase the braking ability, kind of like flaps on a plane.

 

[Unrest]

I don't know if the gains would be worth implementing it, and modifying the current designs would probably be more effective. It would be interesting to use it to increase the braking ability, kind of like flaps on a plane.

A wind turbine wouldn't have lower losses, they're notoriously inefficient. Generators on the other hand are suprisingly efficient. If some car has it wired up inefficiently then the solution woud just be to rewire it or maybe have a clutch to disengage it.

I don't think the non-coastig problem is because of permanent magnets tho. If it's not generating electric current then where's all that energy going? Heating up the armeture? Sure a little bit, but that's the same tiny inefficiency that's there in any generator.

Flaps to increase braking efficiency would hardly have any effect because cars travel so slowly. Maybe if you used a parachuse like a drag racer it might save you from crashing into a truck or something, but that's a whole different purpose to conserving fuel. If you have to be stopping so quickly it's an emergency, not day-to-day driving.

 

[Caladorcp]

Caladorcp, we get people that post in these threads asking all kinds of questions expecting various types of replies. Don't expect us to read your mind in order to know what type of reply you want. Most folks want a real answer with an explanation as to why it won't work. And then some of them go on to say why they disagree and then say it will work. Funny thing that is, it makes me wonder why they asked in the first place.
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BUT, not many people come on here like you. You posed a scenario first. Then you said you just wanted a yes or no answer and a simple explanation which you got from me along with reassurance that you are definitely among many others that have had the same idea. You are NOT alone. Then you complain about other posters making you feel stupid. In my opinion everyone has given you just what you asked in the first place. If you feel stupid, it is not our fault and quite honestly I cannot understand why you feel that way since as I previously stated, many other people make the same assumption.
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Last thought: As many of these discussions as I have watched, no one EVER comes up with the idea of putting a sail on a vehicle. Not really practical in city driving, but the point still stands.

I didn't say nobody gave me an answer, I just thought their answers seemed rude. When I said I wanted an answer and a simple explanation I was simply saying just that, I WANT AN ANSWER, meaning I wasn't looking for all the other stuff in the posts that seemed to put me down. And it's noted that others have asked and I am aware, ok.

Why are you bringing this up anyway? I said previously (If you read lol) that I found my idea wouldn't work.

Please note: I am no longer looking for an answer so stop posting about it. I get that my idea wouldn't work, alright.


Anyway...247killingtim, I don't think a turbine small enough to fit on a car (or in it) would generate much power to be worth anything or make much of a difference.

And microsoftMan, I didn't intend to "hijack your thread," sorry about that.