Work done by a harmonic oscillator

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the work done by a harmonic oscillator, particularly focusing on the implications of force being variable versus constant. Participants explore the relationship between force and work in the context of Hooke's law and the behavior of oscillators.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants examine the expression for work done by an undamped oscillator and question the assumption of constant force. They discuss the implications of integrating force over displacement and the conditions under which certain equations apply.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants presenting differing views on the nature of force in the context of work. Some provide counterarguments regarding the validity of expressions used, while others seek to clarify the definitions and conditions under which these expressions hold true.

Contextual Notes

There is an ongoing debate about the assumptions made in calculating work, particularly regarding the constancy of force and its implications in different scenarios, such as in the case of an electron in a battery.

Hunt_
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In the case of an undamped oscillator, the work done by the system is written as ( assume initial position is 0 ) :

[tex]W = - \Delta U = - K \frac{x^2}{2}[/tex]

But to verify this , we must assume that the force acting on the oscillator is constant , which is not true as F = f(x) according to hook's law.

To find an expression for the work done by the system I start with :

[tex]dW = Cos(F,x) \ d(Fx) = d(Fx) = -K d(x^2)[/tex]

then it follows that

[tex]W = - K x^2[/tex]

Ofcourse this eq must be wrong , but I wonder why. Why should the force of the spring be constant ?
 
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The force of the spring isn't constant:

[tex]dW = Fdx = kx dx[/tex]

Integrate that and you'll get the correct answer.
 
When you write dW=Fdx you already assume the force is constant . Otherwise , why would F be outside the differential ? We should write dW = d(Fx) keeping F inside the differential as it is not a constant. dW = Fdx is correct only when F = constant. True ?

Notice , when calculating the work done by an electron in a battery , we write dW = d(Fx) = d(qEx) = Vdq assuming the potential difference V = const while q is a variable. ( In this case F is not constant ). Had we written directly dW = Fdx , we would not obtain the correct expression. It is not necessary that dW = Fdx always holds true, it depends on the situation.

I hope you got my point.
 
Hunt_ said:
When you write dW=Fdx you already assume the force is constant . Otherwise , why would F be outside the differential ? We should write dW = d(Fx) keeping F inside the differential as it is not a constant. dW = Fdx is correct only when F = constant. True ?
No, not true. The differential element of work is dW = Fdx, not dW = d(Fx). (What does dF even mean? A small change in F?) Work is Force times distance; we need to add up (integrate) all the contributions of Force*dx over the variable x. Whether F is constant or not is a different story: if F is constant, then you can take it out of the integral. In this case F is a function of x, so dW = Fdx = kx dx:

[tex]W = \int F(x) dx \neq F(x) \int dx[/tex]

[tex]W = \int F(x) dx = \int k x dx = 1/2 kx^2[/tex]

Notice , when calculating the work done by an electron in a battery , we write dW = d(Fx) = d(qEx) = Vdq assuming the potential difference V = const while q is a variable. ( In this case F is not constant ). Had we written directly dW = Fdx , we would not obtain the correct expression. It is not necessary that dW = Fdx always holds true, it depends on the situation.
Again, incorrect. dW = F dx is always true--it's the basic definition of work. In the case where force is constant (and in the same direction as displacement):

[tex]W = \int F dx = F \int dx = Fx[/tex]
 
Thanks , I think it makes much more sense now.
 

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