News Would a cashless society end this menace of black money?

[chound]

Would it be impossible to bring a cashless society i.e. if you want to buy anything minor even like a hair pin(most places insist on a certain minimum amount before u can use ur credit card) or something as big as a 40 acre estate(there is a limit on the money u can spend using ur credit card) you have to pay only using credit card.

Why I'm saying is that in India there is a whole lot of black money. This is estimated to be 3 lakh crores. All this money is lost. My friend told me this in a govt office the officers were collecting bribes(or extra chcarge) when the Income Tax officers visited this place the officers who had taken the money just through the money out of the window into the gutter so that they don't get cought.

Would a cashless society end this menace of black money?

 

[Art]

Would it be impossible to bring a cashless society i.e. if you want to buy anything minor even like a hair pin(most places insist on a certain minimum amount before u can use ur credit card) or something as big as a 40 acre estate(there is a limit on the money u can spend using ur credit card) you have to pay only using credit card.

Why I'm saying is that in India there is a whole lot of black money. This is estimated to be 3 lakh crores. All this money is lost. My friend told me this in a govt office the officers were collecting bribes(or extra chcarge) when the Income Tax officers visited this place the officers who had taken the money just through the money out of the window into the gutter so that they don't get cought.

Would a cashless society end this menace of black money?

There is nothing to stop a move to a cashless society but first some serious holes in the current cashless alternatives would need to be plugged. See link below
http://www.ohiou.edu/police/creditfraud.htm

 

[Daminc]

A cashless society would require a totally 'Big Brother' type of Government/NWO. Would you really want a nameless/faceless entity complete control of your finances?

 

[Burnsys]

un a cashless society what will be the rol of private banks?? will they be able to create money too... and now that moeny does not exist, will they be making incredeble amounts of profits, just for mantaining the computers and the system?... also will be private banks the ones who will now everything you do...

 

[Pengwuino]

Would a cashless society end this menace of black money?

I don't know. As for a mandatory cashless society in general however, there's a whole lot of problems. How would say, kids go about their day making those stupid little bets a lot of us did back in the day. Oh $.50 says you can jump over that wall, etc etc. How about all the illegal activity that happens? You'd have every major criminal organization trying to stop it from happening. Then again, we're moving towards the idea already except that I am sure anything mandatory woudl be met with great rejection. People seem to be like that... its happening at a fast rate right now and people love it and almost encourage it but the second you try to make anything "mandatory", they'll blow their tops.

@Burnsys

Seriously... go learn how banking systems actually work...

 

[selfAdjoint]

un a cashless society what will be the rol of private banks?? will they be able to create money too... and now that moeny does not exist, will they be making incredeble amounts of profits, just for mantaining the computers and the system?... also will be private banks the ones who will now everything you do...

Banks would rejoice at a true and working cashless society. Not to have to maintain 24 hour ATMs or have cash money to hand out in return for checks would save them money. And all their main business - accounts and loans - is cashless and has been for a century.

And yes they can create money as they do now, by having more outsanding in loans than they have on deposit in accounts. And this is only indirectly monitored/controlled by the Fed.

 

[ray b]

those wanting bribes would just shift to some other small valuable medium
gold diamonds ect
and who wants big brother to know where all your cash is going anyway?

 

[russ_watters]

A cashless society would require a totally 'Big Brother' type of Government/NWO. Would you really want a nameless/faceless entity complete control of your finances?

Why? What role would it play?

Guys, we already have a virtually cashless society. Few people use cash for purchases over $100. I personally only spend about $200 a month in cash - the rest is credit/debit card purchases.

 

[russ_watters]

un a cashless society what will be the rol of private banks??

Exactly the same as now. The cash part of their business is very small, eliminating it would not require much of a change.

 

[Burnsys]

If cashless society is on... Then everybody will have no choice but to have an account in a private bank?? in that case. isn't it a little scary??

Banks would have the power to create money, people will be forcer to be their customer, they will make profit for every add to cash in the society and they will now everything we do... Knowing that banks are private corporations in the hands of private citizen like you and me, doesn't this give them to much power over the regular citizens?

 

[Burnsys]

Cashless society propaganda:

http://www.freedomisslavery.info/index.php?cat=6

 

[Pengwuino]

If cashless society is on... Then everybody will have no choice but to have an account in a private bank?? in that case. isn't it a little scary??

Banks would have the power to create money, people will be forcer to be their customer, they will make profit for every add to cash in the society and they will now everything we do... Knowing that banks are private corporations in the hands of private citizen like you and me, doesn't this give them to much power over the regular citizens?

Banks are regulated. You can say this about almost every corporation on Earth and even our government. Most fears are unjustified, especially by people who don't even know how banks worth (ahem...)

And what hte hell, a blog based solely on monitoring cashless society discussions? This guy better work as a financial analyst or something or he's a loser. But then again this guys probably 17 because he's obviously never had to go to a grocery store or been robbed...

 

[Art]

Banks are regulated. You can say this about almost every corporation on Earth and even our government. Most fears are unjustified, especially by people who don't even know how banks worth (ahem...)

And what hte hell, a blog based solely on monitoring cashless society discussions? This guy better work as a financial analyst or something or he's a loser. But then again this guys probably 17 because he's obviously never had to go to a grocery store or been robbed...

Penqwuino, in the earlier thread money / person ratio it was apparent to me at least that Burnsys understanding of the banking industry exceeded yours so please stop with the put downs.
In recent years several major banks have been stung to the tune of hundreds of millions of $s by rogue traders in their employ so regulation obviously isn't foolproof.
As for being robbed on the way to the grocery store, I do not see how a cashless society will help prevent that unless you go shopping naked and use only your fingerprint for ID when you make your purchases. In street muggings these days the victims are stripped of their credit cards, watches, jewellary and even trainers.

 

[russ_watters]

If cashless society is on... Then everybody will have no choice but to have an account in a private bank?? in that case. isn't it a little scary??

Why? What's the alternative - keeping your money under your mattress? That's an awful thing to do.

Knowing that banks are private corporations in the hands of private citizen like you and me, doesn't this give them to much power over the regular citizens?

Not if they are correctly regulated. I don't know much about how they work in your country, but in the US this isn't an issue.

 

[Pengwuino]

Penqwuino, in the earlier thread money / person ratio it was apparent to me at least that Burnsys understanding of the banking industry exceeded yours so please stop with the put downs.

Wow, so banks just magically create money without any recourse. magically however, banks fail... and magically, banks don't own the world... wow... I've been put in my place as far as knowledge is concerned!

 

[Burnsys]

Wow, so banks just magically create money without any recourse. magically however, banks fail... and magically, banks don't own the world... wow... I've been put in my place as far as knowledge is concerned!

No. they create money out of others resources.
may be they don't own the entire world. but sure they own my country:

Argentina’s creditors include Citibank (the largest one and, incidentally, the one that manages the country’s foreign debt as well as that of other countries in the region, such as Peru,) David Rockefeller’s Chase Manhattan Bank, Bank of America, Bank of Tokyo, Chemical Banking Corporation, Credit Lyonais, Credit Suisse, Dresdner Bank, Lloyds Bank, Morgan Guaranty Trust, Royal Bank of Canada and The Sanwa Bank.

One of Argentina’s creditor’s, JP Morgan, measures the bankers’ risk of nations by means of its “emerging market bond index.” Every time Argentina’s country risk index grows, foreign investors start to panic and the Argentine market collapses, which makes Morgan bank an influential instrument in disrupting the financial markets.

Little of the IMF bailout money escapes New York, where it lingers to pay interest to U.S. creditors, such as Citibank.

From 1976 to 1983, foreign debt grew from $7.8 billion to $46 billion as most of the private debt was “nationalized” during Cavallo’s tenure at the Central Bank in the early 1980s.

Among the institutions that benefited from this scam are not only current creditors such as Citibank, Chase Manhattan and the Bank of America but the First National Bank of Boston, Mercedes-Benz Argentina, Deere and Company Argentina, Ford Motor Co. Argentina, IBM Argentina and the Deutsche Bank.

 

[Burnsys]

Why? What's the alternative - keeping your money under your mattress? That's an awful thing to do.

No. giving my money to someone else who can use 90% of my money at his will, and who keep acount of how do i expend all my money...

Not if they are correctly regulated. I don't know much about how they work in your country, but in the US this isn't an issue.

It goes beyond regulation, private banks has in their control almost all of the peoples money, you hope they never pay a bribe to the agency that regulate them... anyway they have all the money they want to do it...

 

[russ_watters]

No. giving my money to someone else who can use 90% of my money at his will, and who keep acount of how do i expend all my money...

I don't understand - who are you giving your money to and what are they doing with it?

 

[Burnsys]

I don't understand - who are you giving your money to and what are they doing with it?

I was being sarcastic...
you said:

"Why? What's the alternative - keeping your money under your mattress? That's an awful thing to do"

I think it's more awful to give you money to someone else (Private bank) who can lent your money to anyone he decides and who can also track all your money movements...

 

[Daminc]

and who can also track all your money movements...

This is one of the key arguements against a totally cashless society.

Already with credit cards and the like your purchases can be tracked and the information sold to advertising agencies. There are developments of using online purchasing data to target users with concentrated advertising campaigns straight to your computer based upon past purchasing history.

Purchasing details can also be tied to medical data to influence insurance statistics, tax details, political targeting etc.

Information is one of the biggest growth markets in the world.

I work as an Information Analyst for an online multimedia company and I'm well aware that, with minimal investment, I could probably get the credit rating and online purchasing history, as well as your age, sex, location of most people (including most of the members here) and use that as a targeted campaign to sell stuff to you.

 

[russ_watters]

I was being sarcastic...
you said:

"Why? What's the alternative - keeping your money under your mattress? That's an awful thing to do"

I think it's more awful to give you money to someone else (Private bank) who can lent your money to anyone he decides and who can also track all your money movements...

Oh...ok. I still don't see why its bad to give your money to a private bank. You get interest and security. The fact that the bank can lend your money out is beyond irrelevant (its insured, so you can't lose it) - its the fact that it can be lent out that enables the bank to pay you interest.

Yes, they track all your money movements - well, that's kinda their job. That's not a bad thing unless they use that information for some nefarious purpose, though I can't imagine what they would do with it.

 

[russ_watters]

This is one of the key arguements against a totally cashless society.

This is a concern, but I think an overblown one. We've had the discussion before, but the word "privacy" is often used where it doesn't belong. Case in point:

Already with credit cards and the like your purchases can be tracked and the information sold to advertising agencies. There are developments of using online purchasing data to target users with concentrated advertising campaigns straight to your computer based upon past purchasing history.

Which is the bigger concern, the fact that we are being saturated with advertising or that the advertising is personally targeted? IMO, its the fact that we are being saturated with advertising that is the bigger concern, and that is not a privacy issue.

When it comes to the information itself, not much is really changing about what is out there. Medical information is still confidential, your name and address still isn't. All that is changing is that computers are allowing for better processing of that data to better target the advertising that is already saturating us.

 

[chound]

If cashless society is on... Then everybody will have no choice but to have an account in a private bank?? in that case. isn't it a little scary??

I don't understand why you say everyone should have an acount in a private bank. Well maybe in the US there are only pvt banks but in India there are a lot of govt banks.

How do banks just create money?

Whats wrong with banks tracking your spending. It is their business right to know that so that they can send your credit card bill and etc.?

Why don't you want "big brother"(are u talking about the govt?) to know your financial status?

 

[Burnsys]

I don't understand why you say everyone should have an acount in a private bank. Well maybe in the US there are only pvt banks but in India there are a lot of govt banks.

How do banks just create money?

Whats wrong with banks tracking your spending. It is their business right to know that so that they can send your credit card bill and etc.?

Why don't you want "big brother"(are u talking about the govt?) to know your financial status?

Yes, but for example in argentina we have 3 govt banks, and the imf is telling our government to privatize them, of course our government is doing it...

look at the thread "Money/Person ratio" where it's discused how private banks create money..

Banks traking all our money movements would result in their knowledge of the entire economic esenario, they will be able to predict stock rises, investments, bankrupts, everything. they will have a clear advantage over regular citizens (Remember private banks are owned by a small group of regular citizens). plus they have te power to create money.

They have to much power to be a group of private citizens...

They also decide who gets loans and who don't..
.


Another think... I was thinking. suppose i am the owner of a private bank... I have in my possesion incredeble amounts of money., can i lent let's say a millon dolar to myself?? is there any law that prohibit that?

 

[faust9]

Wow, so banks just magically create money without any recourse.

Actually, yes. Industrialized nations rely on their respective central banks(ours is private but regulated here in the US) to regulate the amount of 'currency' in the system. Our money is not backed by a resource outher than the good word of the US as a good debter. In fact, there is even a term for the 'magical' creation of money from nowhere except the whims--educated as they may be--- of the central bank. It's called fiat money. http://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fiatmoney.asp

Money in this day and age has no intrinsic value thus the creation and use of it is 'magical'. Money is only as valuable as WE allow it to be. WE accept that $20,000 is a fair amount for a New Beetle of Mini and WE accept that working for $15/hour is a fair trade for labor. The money itself is worthless---that is why some people place more value in money than others. Some people have to seemingly work harder for their money than others and as such assign more sentimental value to that which is essentially worthless. Pretty 'magical' if you ask me.

 

[Pengwuino]

Actually, yes. Industrialized nations rely on their respective central banks(ours is private but regulated here in the US) to regulate the amount of 'currency' in the system. Our money is not backed by a resource outher than the good word of the US as a good debter. In fact, there is even a term for the 'magical' creation of money from nowhere except the whims--educated as they may be--- of the central bank. It's called fiat money. http://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fiatmoney.asp

Money in this day and age has no intrinsic value thus the creation and use of it is 'magical'. Money is only as valuable as WE allow it to be. WE accept that $20,000 is a fair amount for a New Beetle of Mini and WE accept that working for $15/hour is a fair trade for labor. The money itself is worthless---that is why some people place more value in money than others. Some people have to seemingly work harder for their money than others and as such assign more sentimental value to that which is essentially worthless. Pretty 'magical' if you ask me.

No, our discussion wasnt about the backing of money, it was burnsys claim that say, your local bank of america branch can just instanly open an account with say, a trillion dollars and give it to someone without any recourse. They never needed to have that trillion dollars in the first place according to burnsys so someone could just open a bank with no connection to the outside world and magically produce 1 trillion dollars for the first person who walks in. Magic in my eyes

 

[faust9]

No, our discussion wasnt about the backing of money, it was burnsys claim that say, your local bank of america branch can just instanly open an account with say, a trillion dollars and give it to someone without any recourse. They never needed to have that trillion dollars in the first place according to burnsys so someone could just open a bank with no connection to the outside world and magically produce 1 trillion dollars for the first person who walks in. Magic in my eyes

For some reason this account of the thread does not jive with what has been presented in the thread. I don't recall reading anything by Burnsys to the effect of a magical trillion dollars which you use here as your example. In fact, your response was to Art which I took the liberty to correct you by stating the money is 'magically' produced. I found it odd that you chose to be so condescending when the reality of the situation is akin to 'magic'. Money is less valuable than lead ironically enough. The value WE place in money as a barterible resource is far far greater than any money or natural resources backing the dollar bills you may carry with you. Lead into gold or rather green ink into gold. Magic.

You might try addressing issues rather than condescending retorts in the future I might add. Just my humble opinion.

Mahalo.

 

[Art]

Money in this day and age has no intrinsic value thus the creation and use of it is 'magical'. Money is only as valuable as WE allow it to be. WE accept that $20,000 is a fair amount for a New Beetle of Mini and WE accept that working for $15/hour is a fair trade for labor. The money itself is worthless---that is why some people place more value in money than others. Some people have to seemingly work harder for their money than others and as such assign more sentimental value to that which is essentially worthless. Pretty 'magical' if you ask me.

Fully agree. In an earlier thread I referred to it as the 'Tinkerbell' system. Money only has value so long as people believe it does.

 

[Art]

A recent example of the power banks yield is the take over in England of the hugely successful, both on the field and financially, Manchester Utd FC PLC. (For those unfamiliar with British terminology PLC means a publically quoted company) by the American tycoon M Glazer for £790 million. He gained control of the club in a hostile bid by borrowing the purchase money from a consortium of banks. Now he is in control he can take the personal debt he incurred and transfer it onto the company's books and so he gets a valuable company for free, whilst the banks are delighted with the interest payments they will now receive from the club. Meanwhile the club gets nothing but a mountain of debt, thus restricting their future activities in the transfer market and a new owner.
The fans who morally at least are the true owners of any sporting club are outraged but what can they do? Some have supported the club all their lives so simply staying away in protest is not really an option for them.

 

[brewnog]

As far as I'm concerned, I'm working on a cashless basis already. I bought my car on Switch, I pay my rent over the internet, and I buy petrol on an account card. I always buy my groceries using plastic, and in the pub I just put my round on a credit card. I'm not so different from anyone else, but what's the problem? It's not like we use the gold standard or anything, our money doesn't need to be represented by material artefacts.

 

[Pengwuino]

For some reason this account of the thread does not jive with what has been presented in the thread. I don't recall reading anything by Burnsys to the effect of a magical trillion dollars which you use here as your example. In fact, your response was to Art which I took the liberty to correct you by stating the money is 'magically' produced. I found it odd that you chose to be so condescending when the reality of the situation is akin to 'magic'. Money is less valuable than lead ironically enough. The value WE place in money as a barterible resource is far far greater than any money or natural resources backing the dollar bills you may carry with you. Lead into gold or rather green ink into gold. Magic.

I understand how you got so confused. This is in relation to another thread where Art and Burnsys showed very little knowledge on how the banking system works. Burnsys belief is that you can simply create a trillion dollars out of nowhere (because he compared it to himself being able to run a counterfeight operation in his backyard). This lead him to say something with a false basis that i addressed. As for the 17 year old loser thing, iwas talking about the person who wrote that blog because really... who would waste their time with such trivial matters?

 

[Art]

I understand how you got so confused. This is in relation to another thread where Art and Burnsys showed very little knowledge on how the banking system works.

ROFL Good one penqwuino I hadn't realized you had such a good sense of humour.

 

[Pengwuino]

Thank you, thank you, i try my best