Would a wire's magnetic field increase the net-B field?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interaction between a wire carrying current and an external magnetic field, specifically whether the wire's magnetic field influences the net magnetic field and the resulting forces acting on the wire. The scope includes theoretical considerations and conceptual clarifications related to electromagnetism and the Lorentz force.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if the magnetic field created by a current-carrying wire (##B_w##) interacts with an external magnetic field (##B##) and whether this interaction results in a Lorentz force.
  • Another participant asserts that magnetic fields do not interact in a way that affects the total field; instead, contributions can be added to find the total field at a point.
  • A participant acknowledges a misconception about the wire's magnetic field affecting the external field, thanking another for clarification.
  • One participant discusses two perspectives on the force acting on a current-carrying wire: the 'Faraday picture' which considers the resultant magnetic fields and the modern approach focusing on the external field's action on the wire, noting potential confusion in educational contexts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the wire's magnetic field affects the external magnetic field, indicating a lack of consensus on this point. There is also a discussion about the interpretation of forces on the wire, suggesting multiple perspectives exist.

Contextual Notes

There is a potential confusion arising from the different interpretations of magnetic field interactions and forces on current-carrying wires, as well as the educational approaches to these concepts.

PhiowPhi
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From the following diagram:

MagF_4.gif


When a wire is placed in a magnetic field ##B##, and current starts to flow within that wire. It creates it's own magnetic field(##B_w##). Will ##B_w## interact with the external field ##B##? If it does, is the result of the interaction the Lorentz force?

Also from the direction of current the wire's magnetic field could oppose or support the external field, will that decrease/increase the total magnetic field, causing ##\Delta## (##\phi##) and will induced -##\epsilon## to oppose the change?

Because in applications related to the Lorentz force I study(motors) the induced ##\epsilon## I am aware of, are from self-inductance of the wire, or the motion of the wire which causes the change in area. Not sure of anything else...
 
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For all practical purposes, magnetic fields do not interact with each other. You can just add different contributions to find the total field at a point. They can influence other magnetic dipoles but that is a different type of interaction. The magnetic field of the wire is irrelevant if you want to study the effect of the outside magnetic field on the wire - as long as your wire does not influence the magnetic dipoles in the magnet.
 
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I assumed that the field of the current-carrying wire would somehow increase/decrease the external magnetic field. Thanks for clearing out that misconception @mfb.
 
I think that any confusion arises from there being two ways of 'understanding' the force on a current-carrying wire…

The 'Faraday picture' considers the RESULTANT of the wire's magnetic field and the external magnetic field. The resultant field lines are bunched on one side of the conductor and spaced out on the other, forming a swirly pattern. So far, so uncontroversial. But Faraday regarded the stretched and bunched-together field lines on one side of the wire as acting like a catapult and pushing 'sideways' on the current-carrying wire (as compared to the more spaced-out lines on the other side of the wire).

The modern approach is that the force arises by the action of the EXTERNAL field on the wire.

Confusion is caused when textbooks and teachers don't make a clear enough distinction between the approaches, so that the student gets a mixture of the two. One could argue that there's not a very strong case for teaching the catapult approach at all.
 

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