Z-transform and even/odd signals.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of the Z-transform of real-valued discrete-time signals, specifically focusing on the evenness of the magnitude and the oddness of the phase of the Z-transform. Participants explore these properties through various approaches, including pole-zero plots and mathematical identities.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the Z-transform \( X(z) \) can be expressed in terms of its poles and zeros, leading to the conclusion that the magnitude \( |X(e^{j\omega})| \) is even in \( \omega \) and the phase \( \angle X(e^{j\omega}) \) is odd in \( \omega \).
  • Another participant provides a derivation showing that if \( x(n) \) is real-valued, then \( X(e^{j\omega}) = X^*(e^{-j\omega}) \), which implies even symmetry for the magnitude and odd symmetry for the phase.
  • A different approach is presented, where a participant derives the evenness of the magnitude and oddness of the phase using properties of complex conjugates and the definition of even and odd functions.
  • One participant confirms the correctness of the previous claims and emphasizes the role of complex-conjugate pairs in the Z-transform, illustrating how this leads to the evenness of magnitude and oddness of phase in a pole-zero plot.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the properties of the Z-transform for real-valued signals, but there are multiple approaches and explanations presented without a single consensus on the preferred method of demonstration.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the clarity of their mathematical expressions and the implications of their derivations. There are also hints at potential misunderstandings regarding the representation of poles and zeros in the Z-plane.

ace1719
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Homework Statement


"Let x[n] be a real-valued DT signal. Using the Pole-Zero plot of X(z), argue as to why:
a. |X(e^jω)| is even in ω.
b. ∠X(e^jω) is odd in ω.

Hint: if x[n] is real, what can we say about the poles and zeros of X(z)?

Homework Equations



None.

The Attempt at a Solution


I figure that X(z) will probably of the form, \frac{(e^jω-z1)(e^jω-z2)...}{(e^jω-p1)(e^jω-p2)...}, and I know even functions are defined by x(n)=x(-n) and odd functions by x(n)=-x(-n), but beyond that, not much.
 
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If x(n) is real valued then:

x(n)=x*(n)

DTFT x(n) <-------> X(e^jw)
DTFT x*(n) <-------> X*(e^-jw)

X(e^jw)=Re{X(e^jw)} + jIm{X(e^jw)}
X*(e^-jw)=Re{X(e^-jw)} - jIm{X(e^-jw)}

since x(n)=x*(n), X(e^jw)=X*(e^-jw)
thus Re{X(e^jw)} + jIm{X(e^jw)}= Re{X(e^-jw)} - jIm{X(e^-jw)} so
|Re{X(e^jw)} + jIm{X(e^jw)}| = |Re{X(e^-jw)} - jIm{X(e^-jw)}|
Even symmetry.

sorry that looks sloppy...

You can use the same logic to show the phase is odd.Hint: real-valued signals result in complex-conjugate pairs.
 
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I came up with an elegant solution to this problem, albeit it didn't use poles and zeros.

Re(x[n]) -> 0.5(X(z) + X*(z*))
Im(x[n]) -> -0.5j(X(z) - X*(z*))

Im(x[n])=0, therefore we can conclude that X(z) = X*(z*). (1)
I read in a book that, for real signals X(-z)=X*(z). (2)

|X(z)| = sqrt(X(z*)X*(z*)) (from eq. (1)). (3)

X*(z)=X(-z) and X(z)=X*(-z) (from eq. (2)). Substituting this into eq. (3) gives you:

|X(z)| = sqrt(X(z*)X*(z*)) = sqrt(X(-z*)X*(-z*)), which is the definition of an even function.


As for angle,

∠X(z) = arctan(Im(X(z)/Re(X(z)). Arctan is odd, therefore ∠X(z) is also odd.

If you see any mistakes, please respond.
 
That is all correct.

To use poles/zeros you just need to realize that real values create complex-conjugate pairs, so one real input will give you |a|e^jb and |-a|e^-jb making a z-plane plot look something like this:
. |Im
. | x
. |
------------------------------------
. | Re
. | x
. |

So you can see that magnitude is the same (even) and the angle (pi/4 vs -pi/4 for example) is odd.
 
Last edited:
Sorry none of the spacing worked... I think you get the idea.
 

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