Zhina's question at Yahoo Answers regarding optimization subject to constraint

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around an optimization problem involving a rectangular box constructed from a 24-foot wire, which is cut into 12 pieces. The base of the box is specified to be twice as long as it is wide. Participants explore methods to find the maximum volume of the box, discussing both multi-variable calculus and single-variable calculus approaches.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the problem and requests help with the optimization task.
  • Another participant proposes using Lagrange multipliers to derive the volume function and constraints, leading to a set of equations to solve for maximum volume.
  • A different participant suggests that the problem can be approached using single-variable calculus, deriving the volume function based on the constraints and finding critical points to determine maximum volume.
  • There is a correction from one participant pointing out that the original poster's statement about the dimensions was overlooked, indicating the length is twice the width.
  • Several participants acknowledge the oversight regarding the constraints and adjust their approaches accordingly, with one expressing a realization of the mistake after reviewing the problem more carefully.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best method to solve the problem, with multiple approaches being discussed. There is acknowledgment of errors in interpreting the constraints, but no agreement on a single solution method.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the application of Lagrange multipliers versus single-variable calculus, and there are unresolved aspects related to the constraints and the resulting equations.

MarkFL
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Here is the question:

CALCULUS needHELP WITH THIS PLEASE! APPRECIAT EIT -?

please DON'T GO AWAY WHEN YOU SEE THIS! HELP NEEDED THANKS

a 24 foot wire is cut into 12 pieces which are welded together to form a rectangular frame whose base is twice as long than it is wide .
the frame is than covered with paper to form a box . find the volume of the largest possible box that can be made this way

Please help with this thanks in advance so much

Here is a link to the question:

CALCULUS needHELP WITH THIS PLEASE! APPRECIAT EIT -? - Yahoo! Answers

I have posted a link there to this topic so the OP can find my response.
 
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Hello Zhina,

Let's let the dimensions of the box be $x,y,z$ (all positive) where the volume (the objective function) is:

$$V(x,y,z)=xyz$$

Each dimension will require 4 pieces of wire, so we have the constraint:

$$4x+4y+4z=4L$$ (where $4L$ is the total length of the wire)

$$g(x,y,z)=x+y+z-L=0$$

We also have the constraint (if we choose $y$ to be the length, and $x$ to be the width)

$$h(x,y,z)=y-2x=0$$

Using Lagrange multipliers, we obtain the system:

$$yz=\lambda-2\mu$$

$$xz=\lambda+\mu$$

$$xy=\lambda$$

which implies:

$$\lambda=yz+2\mu=xz-\mu=xy$$

From:

$$yz+2\mu=xz-\mu$$

we obtain:

$$\mu=\frac{xz-yz}{3}$$

Now we also have:

$$xz-\mu=xy$$

$$\mu=xz-xy$$

and hence, we find:

$$\frac{xz-yz}{3}=xz-xy$$

$$xz-yz=3xz-3xy$$

$$-yz=2xz-3xy$$

$$x=\frac{yz}{3y-2z}$$

Substituting for $x$ into the second constraint, we find:

$$y=\frac{2yz}{3y-2z}$$

Since $y\ne0$, we may divide through by $y$ to obtain:

$$y=\frac{4z}{3}$$

Substituting for $y$ into the formula for $x$, we obtain:

$$x=\frac{\left(\frac{4z}{3} \right)z}{3\left(\frac{4z}{3} \right)-2z}=\frac{2z}{3}$$

Now, substituting for $x$ and $y$ into the first constraint, we obtain:

$$\frac{2z}{3}+\frac{4z}{3}+z=L$$

$$z=\frac{L}{3},\,y=\frac{4L}{9},\,x=\frac{2L}{9}$$

We know this is a maximum, as the other critical point is $$\left(0,0,4L \right)$$ giving:

$$V_{\min}=0\text{ ft}^3$$

Thus, we find:

$$V_{\max}=V\left(\frac{2L}{9},\frac{4L}{9},\frac{L}{3} \right)=3\left(\frac{2L}{9} \right)^3$$

Plugging in the given $$L=6\text{ ft}$$, we find:

$$V_{\max}=3\left(\frac{2(6\text{ ft})}{9} \right)^3=\frac{64}{9}\,\text{ ft}^3$$

To Zhina and any other guests viewing this topic, I invite and encourage you to post other optimization questions in our http://www.mathhelpboards.com/f10/ forum.

Best Regards,

Mark.
 
Last edited:
This can actually be solved using single variable calculus. We know that the twelve pieces form the edges of a box, and we also know that we are making these pieces from a 24ft long wire. If we call the length "l", the width "w" and the height "h", then we have

[math]\displaystyle \begin{align*} 4l + 4w + 4h &= 24 \end{align*}[/math]

We are also told that the length is twice the width, so [math]\displaystyle \begin{align*} l = 2w \end{align*}[/math], and from there we can see that

[math]\displaystyle \begin{align*} 4 \left( 2w \right) + 4w + 4h &= 24 \\ 12w + 4h &= 24 \\ 4h &= 24 - 12w \\ h &= 6 - 3w \end{align*}[/math]

The volume of the box can be found using

[math]\displaystyle \begin{align*} V &= lwh \\ &= 2w \left( w \right) \left( 6 - 3w \right) \\ &= 12w^2 - 6w^3 \end{align*}[/math]

The maximum volume is where the derivative is 0, so

[math]\displaystyle \begin{align*} \frac{dV}{dw} &= 24w - 18w^2 \\ 0 &= 24w - 18w^2 \\ 0 &= 6w \left( 4 - 3w \right) \\ w = 0 \textrm{ or } w &= \frac{4}{3} \end{align*}[/math]

Clearly when w = 0, the volume will be 0, so the maximum volume has to be when [math]\displaystyle \begin{align*} w = \frac{4}{3} \end{align*}[/math]. To check that it's a maximum, we can check the value of the derivative on either side of the point (say at w = 1 and w = 2). So

[math]\displaystyle \begin{align*} \frac{dV}{dw} | _{w = 1} &= 6 \\ \\ \frac{dV}{dw} | _{w = 2} &= -24 \end{align*}[/math]

Since the gradients go from positive to 0 to negative, the criticial point is a maximum.

[math]\displaystyle \begin{align*} V &= 12 \left( \frac{4}{3} \right) ^2 - 6 \left( \frac{4}{3} \right) ^3 \\ &= 12 \left( \frac{16}{9} \right) - 6 \left( \frac{64}{27} \right) \\ &= \frac{64}{3} - \frac{128}{9} \\ &= \frac{64}{9} \end{align*}[/math]

Therefore the maximum volume is [math]\displaystyle \begin{align*} \frac{64}{9} \,\textrm{ft}\,^3 \end{align*}[/math], when the box has dimensions [math]\displaystyle \begin{align*} \frac{8}{3} \,\textrm{ft} \, \times \frac{4}{3} \,\textrm{ft} \, \times 2\,\textrm{ft} \end{align*}[/math].
 
Last edited:
Sorry Mark, it appears you've forgotten that the OP stated the length is twice as long as the width :)
 
Prove It said:
Sorry Mark, it appears you've forgotten that the OP stated the length is twice as long as the width :)

Yes, thanks to your post, I realized I did not read the problem carefully enough, and I have edited my post to reflect the second constraint. I would not have used Lagrange multipliers if I had done so. :D
 
Last edited:

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