Needing Sincere Honesty from the men on Here....


by TR1KK1
Tags: honesty, needing
TR1KK1
#91
Jul11-10, 11:47 AM
P: n/a
Dan, how do you figure I don't trust him? I don't worry or stress about what he's doing, and who he's with.

Say some day he were to develope a friendship with another girl. I would confront him about it to find out what the real deal is, because:

1. He finally pulled his head from his *** to realize that a girl and a guy can be just friends without sexual attraction.

2. He doesn't want to be with me any more.

If it were scenerio 1. then wonderful, finally he could see my side of things and relax a bit, and if she started dating one of my guy friends the 4 of us could do fun things all together, and that would be frikken awesome!!

If it were scenerio 2. then heartbreak, the trust would be gone, but it wouldn't matter because i would be too.
DanP
DanP is offline
#92
Jul11-10, 11:49 AM
P: 630
Quote Quote by TR1KK1 View Post
Dan, how do you figure I don't trust him? I don't worry or stress about what he's doing, and who he's with.
Because you say that if he hangs out with women, it would make you uncomfortable. If you trust him, it shouldn't.
Office_Shredder
Office_Shredder is offline
#93
Jul11-10, 11:57 AM
Mentor
P: 4,499
Quote Quote by DanP View Post
That's bull. You have no idea why he would hang on with females, or if he wants to cheat or not.
No! He said that the only reason men hang out with women is to sleep with them, and his reasoning for why he knows that it's true? Because that's how he thinks. He's told you what his motivation is.

Unless he has developed psychic powers however, he doesn't actually know how other men think
DanP
DanP is offline
#94
Jul11-10, 12:06 PM
P: 630
Quote Quote by Office_Shredder View Post
No! He said that the only reason men hang out with women is to sleep with them, and his reasoning for why he knows that it's true? Because that's how he thinks. He's told you what his motivation is.

Unless he has developed psychic powers however, he doesn't actually know how other men think
No. You dont need psychic powers, just a string of experiences to form a stereotype. While it doesn't hold true for ALL man, it may very hold true for the typical male in his groups. This is how human mind works, and stereotypical heuristics are usually accurate in describing groups.

You have chosen to believe that he "knows" because he is a representative of that kind of man. I am rather inclined to believe that what he said is the result of stereotyping the groups in his community and age bracket. It's a common phenomena.
TR1KK1
#95
Jul11-10, 12:13 PM
P: n/a
Quote Quote by DanP View Post
The irony is, while you don't trust your boyfriend (who by your own admission loves you and you believe he would not cheat on you) because he said that man only hag with girls if they want to screw them, you have choose to ignore this when it comes to your male friends. You choose to believe that they are not so, they are good and immaculate.

So it seems when it comes to men, you choose to trust your men friends rather than your boyfriend.
Hmm, I'm going to have to pull away from the "trust" topic for this one. That's maybe not an issue of trust , more a disagreement between my bf and I on our opinions on the male psyche. Not every man thinks exactly the same, just as not every woman thinks exactly the same.

1. Alright, I don't believe that every guy only hangs out with women to sleep with them.

2. Even if my guy friends did first start hanging out with me hoping to date me (or whatever) over all the years I've made it clear that I have no attraction to them in that way, and have bluntly stated nurmerous times that we would NEVER hook up. These comments have been snuck into converstaions over the years just to make sure it was always understood that we are friends, that's it. So, I like to believe they've stuck around this long to enjoy my shining personality.

Believe me, I'm not so ignorant to think my guy friends are saints, but they are good people. They make me happy, and I want to share that with my boyfriend, I want all of us to be able to be the closest of friends.
TR1KK1
#96
Jul11-10, 12:22 PM
P: n/a
Quote Quote by Office_Shredder View Post
Unless he has developed psychic powers however, he doesn't actually know how other men think
Thank You.

Quote Quote by DanP View Post
No. You dont need psychic powers, just a string of experiences to form a stereotype.
lol, I do agree with you on why he may think the way he does, but, Shredder's right, not all guys think as he does. A child raised in a home that focused on respect for women, ie. how their father treats their mother would more than likely grow up to have a higher regard for women. However, he can't "know" what all men think because he's going off of a stereotype. That's just out right rediculous.
DanP
DanP is offline
#97
Jul11-10, 12:23 PM
P: 630
Quote Quote by TR1KK1 View Post
Hmm, I'm going to have to pull away from the "trust" topic for this one. That's maybe not an issue of trust , more a disagreement between my bf and I on our opinions on the male psyche. Not every man thinks exactly the same, just as not every woman thinks exactly the same.

1. Alright, I don't believe that every guy only hangs out with women to sleep with them.

2. Even if my guy friends did first start hanging out with me hoping to date me (or whatever) over all the years I've made it clear that I have no attraction to them in that way, and have bluntly stated nurmerous times that we would NEVER hook up. These comments have been snuck into converstaions over the years just to make sure it was always understood that we are friends, that's it. So, I like to believe they've stuck around this long to enjoy my shining personality.

Believe me, I'm not so ignorant to think my guy friends are saints, but they are good people. They make me happy, and I want to share that with my boyfriend, I want all of us to be able to be the closest of friends.
Yes. So we came back to what I said in my first post in this thread. Lets keep the big words like trust out of this, else we wont see the forest because of the trees. Your problem is simple. You don't like how he thinks. He doesn't like what you do. You really only have 2 options:

- negotiate to a point where all parts feel comfortable.
- if you fail, split.

but chances are no men I know would tolerate you very intimate behavior with other men. Most balanced individuals will have no issues with you having male friends, and share a good deal with them, but they'll draw a line somewhere if you appear to care more for your friends than of him.
DanP
DanP is offline
#98
Jul11-10, 12:31 PM
P: 630
Quote Quote by TR1KK1 View Post
However, he can't "know" what all men think because he's going off of a stereotype. That's just out right rediculous.
You would be surprised how accurate are the stereotypes of groups. stereotyping is an essential psychological mechanism in humans , extremely useful and many times uncannily exact, even if they are not based on objective facts. Id go so far to say that stereotyping is essential in helping humans cope with the complexity of social world.

While you think its ridiculous, stereotyping can be exact. It has no value in describing individuals, but it does for groups. And humans are trapped in stereotypes. They are here to stay. Because they are efficient .


The only ridiculous thing here is to claim you need psychic powers to describe groups.
TR1KK1
#99
Jul11-10, 01:56 PM
P: n/a
Quote Quote by DanP View Post
You would be surprised how accurate are the stereotypes of groups. stereotyping is an essential psychological mechanism in humans , extremely useful and many times uncannily exact, even if they are not based on objective facts. Id go so far to say that stereotyping is essential in helping humans cope with the complexity of social world.

While you think its ridiculous, stereotyping can be exact. It has no value in describing individuals, but it does for groups. And humans are trapped in stereotypes. They are here to stay. Because they are efficient .


The only ridiculous thing here is to claim you need psychic powers to describe groups.
I'd be surprised how accurate certain stereotypes are? Well, if you're stereotyping a specific group, bc they're all individuals, some will back up the stereotype, and others will prove it wrong. There's lots of people in the world so of course there would be lots of times
the stereotype was accurate. You leave out, however, the amount of people that break the mold.
Maybe if you develope psychic powers one day you can track me down and give me those numbers. haha

You even admit it has no value in describing individuals. So it's pointless to use stereotyping when we are examining specific people. So maybe instead of believing the stereotype, my guy should believe that these people in my life are quite possibly some of the few that break the mold, and show that stereotypes are not always correct. Stereotyping can be dangerous.

"Id go so far to say that stereotyping is essential in helping humans cope with the complexity of social world."

I believe you are correct... and it makes me sad that it's that way.
DanP
DanP is offline
#100
Jul11-10, 02:34 PM
P: 630
Quote Quote by TR1KK1 View Post
I'd be surprised how accurate certain stereotypes are? Well, if you're stereotyping a specific group, bc they're all individuals, some will back up the stereotype, and others will prove it wrong. There's lots of people in the world so of course there would be lots of times
the stereotype was accurate. You leave out, however, the amount of people that break the mold.
Maybe if you develope psychic powers one day you can track me down and give me those numbers. haha

You even admit it has no value in describing individuals. So it's pointless to use stereotyping when we are examining specific people. So maybe instead of believing the stereotype, my guy should believe that these people in my life are quite possibly some of the few that break the mold, and show that stereotypes are not always correct. Stereotyping can be dangerous.

"Id go so far to say that stereotyping is essential in helping humans cope with the complexity of social world."

I believe you are correct... and it makes me sad that it's that way.
Stereotyping is efficient. Its only pointless to stereotype individuals, its not pointless to stereotype "specific ppl", a group, as you call them. Don't be sad about it, a significant part of human social cognition revolves around schemata , stereotypes included. You do it, I dot, everybody does it. The benefits of stereotyping exceed the negative parts.
TR1KK1
#101
Jul11-10, 02:40 PM
P: n/a
Quote Quote by DanP View Post
Stereotyping is efficient. Its only pointless to stereotype individuals, its not pointless to stereotype "specific ppl", a group, as you call them. Don't be sad about it, a significant part of human social cognition revolves around schemata , stereotypes included. You do it, I dot, everybody does it.
By "specific people", I was referring to individuals within the group.
DaleSpam
DaleSpam is offline
#102
Jul11-10, 03:07 PM
Mentor
P: 16,485
Assuming that your male friends are not rapists then your boyfriend's discomfort is not about them, it is about you and him. It is impossible for us to know whether the root of his unease is some rational reaction to your behavior or an irrational result of some dysfunction of his personality. And in the end, it doesn't really matter which it is, the fact is that it is an issue in the relationship. So you have two choices, either drop the boyfriend or drop the male friends. That choice may hinge quite strongly on your ability to answer the rational/irrational question for yourself.
proof
proof is offline
#103
Jul17-10, 01:49 PM
P: 33
if i find out a girl has more guy friends than girl friends i cut things off immediately. i can't tell you how many times i've tried to give a girl with a disproportionate amount of guy friends the benefit of the doubt but it will never work out. every single girl i've been with who has had more guy friends than girls has had pretty severe psychological issues. now if i know this from the beginning i will just avoid them. no point in starting a relationship that is doomed to fail from the beginning.
this isn't to say i have anything against "tomboys"/girls with interests in things that usually guys like, or girls who have a couple close guy friends, but there is always something wrong with a girl who has few or no girl friends and many guy friends.

also this:
"no man has any interest at all in spending time with a woman, or talking to them unless he is in pursuit of sleeping with her. He says that any guy friends I have are only hanging around in hopes that some day they will be able to **** me. "
is generally very true, girls are usually just too blind / delusional to see it.
proof
proof is offline
#104
Jul17-10, 02:02 PM
P: 33
i'm not saying every single girl with more guy friends is like this, the op may be one of the exceptions to the rule, but chances are that if a girl has many guy friends and few or no girl friends, there is something wrong with her and it's better to not even attempt a relationship with her.
i've discussed with a lot of my guy friends also and they tend to agree with me. in the beginning there were a couple guys in our group who were like "no way man, it doesn't matter at all, it's good she's into guy things" but when we asked them to think about a girl in their past who had more guy friends and what went wrong it's always the same thing. one of the worst relationships/breakups. when they think about it they recall that if the girl had more guy friends she was usually pretty messed up in the head.
i've actually talked about this with a few of my ex girlfriends as well and they agreed that girls who don't have girl friends are usually trouble. there is a reason they can't form close relationships with people of a same sex.

edit: so much for op being exception to the rule. i just read the entire thread and i think you can all see what i mean now.
fictionftw
#105
Jul18-10, 04:36 AM
P: n/a
Quote Quote by proof View Post
when they think about it they recall that if the girl had more guy friends she was usually pretty messed up in the head.
I feel like you're going to get a lot of crap for this, but the two girls that I know that do have almost exclusively guy friends, are both really attention-needy and like to get attention by flirting with their guy friends.

This one girl, Bayley (that I met through a guy friend) had only guy friends, and didn't have girl friends because apparently she thought that girls were catty, etc. But when I met her, she was pushy and full of herself, and I didn't like her and couldn't really see why anybody would. But after hanging out with her in her group of guys, it was easy to see why she had them as friends at least - her pushiness turned into flirtiness, the condescension turned into playful ribbing - they were sort of all vying for her attention, and she loved it. They were all her puppets in her little flirting game. It was gross to watch because it was very clear she had no actual interest in any of them, but was manipulating them all for the sake of quick ego boost.

Blech.
latitude
latitude is offline
#106
Jul21-10, 10:28 AM
P: 54
I would have to say that in my experience you cannot be friends with the opposite sex without attraction coming into play.

You can have relationships where you put attraction aside or disregard it a bit, like in a workplace environment or at a school. You can have a very good rapport and engaging discussions on course material, pop culture, what have you, even relationships. However in terms of real "intimacy", you cannot replicate the kind of intimacy you look for in a girl-girl relationship with a guy. This is simply because the ideals of intimacy are different for different genders.

For a girl, intimacy is generally emotional; we confess things to each other and allow ourselves to be a little vulnerable (needy, angsty, cynical, pessimistic) in order to be encouraged or consoled or empathasized with by our female friends.

For a boy, intimacy with a girl is generally more physical. Kissing, stroking, looking into each other's eyes, etc. If you try and replicate emotional intimacy with a boy ("friendship" intimacy), it doesn't quite work without the physical component. If you want to be cynical and general about it, I would say that roughly, a girl puts up with physical intimacy to reach emotional intimacy with a guy, whereas a guy puts up with emotional intimacy to reach physical intimacy. Just different priorities.

So no. Although I have a few good male friends (less so as I've gotten older), I would say that the bulk of the guys I know are great acquaintances or "buddies"-- a very superficial, friendly, non-intimate relationship revolving mainly around complaining about coursework or joking about profs or playing tennis. And in all honesty, the close male friends that I've had? I have had some kind of romantic interest in them/they've had some kind of romantic interest in me at least once, just briefly or whatnot but unmistakeably there. And I don't think there's a single guy friend I have that I haven't at least once been attracted to strongly or thought casually about what it would be like to bang them good.


So essentially I do think that your boyfriend has a valid fear, but the issue isn't that his fear has a right to exist, it is how it manifests itself and affects you. He will have to get over it and trust that you will not betray him with one of your male friends. And likely his idea of a betrayal is you doing something physically intimate with him, less so emotional betrayal.
DanP
DanP is offline
#107
Jul21-10, 11:17 AM
P: 630
Quote Quote by latitude View Post

So essentially I do think that your boyfriend has a valid fear, but the issue isn't that his fear has a right to exist, it is how it manifests itself and affects you. He will have to get over it and trust that you will not betray him with one of your male friends. And likely his idea of a betrayal is you doing something physically intimate with him, less so emotional betrayal.

Actually, the best advice I can give to a man is to not put up with any **** which bothers him. If you have a gf which is too intimate with other man, you either get yourself intimate with other women, and see how the poor thing reacts and how open is she to an open relationship, either leave her. The sea is full of fish.

It's not about trust. Trust is vastly overrated. There is no need to put yourself up through **** in the name of "trust" and "respect". Even if you trust that a women who is too libertine (from your subjective PoV.) will not cheat on you, if what she does bothers you, you are way better off without her.
latitude
latitude is offline
#108
Jul21-10, 11:21 AM
P: 54
Quote Quote by DanP View Post
It's not about trust. Trust is vastly overrated. There is no need to put yourself up through **** in the name of "trust" and "respect". Even if you trust that a women who is too libertine (from your subjective PoV.) will not cheat on you, if what she does bothers you, you are way better off without her.
This is a fair point. The fact is that if both are unwilling to concede their positions (and that's fair enough), then perhaps they should not be together. The OP may need a guy who does not mind or care that she has close male friends, and the OP's boyfriend may need a girl who is more traditional in her circle of friends.


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