Model for a cyclic universe.

Calimero

Sure, right there in the tip of the pencil you are using to draw those vectors. But that is also true for any other point in space, it is purely coordinate choise. Any point in space can be equally considered as center of universe.

voxilla

I mean more like trace back averages, ok this might sound confusing, let me explain.
If you have a molecular explosion like dynamite, molecules undergo turbulent motion paths. If you would take a snapshot 1 second after the explosion, and another one a little bit later to calculate the motion vectors of all molecules, wouldn't it be possible to identify the point of explosion with this information ?

Calimero

Exactly. Now take snapshot of the universe from Earth (you only need one because you can deduce velocity from the redshift). You will find out that all velocity vectors are pointing away from Earth, so you will conclude that Earth is the center of expansion. Now go at any distance you like, take snapshot again, and you will find out that your new place also looks like center of expansion. This is where balloon analogy comes to the rescue. Search these forums, there is plenty explanation about it.

phinds

You REALLY need to drop this belief that the "big bang" was an explosion, because that mistaken belief causes just the kind of confusion you now find yourself in.

voxilla

Please don't get angry, I more like the reasoning of Calimero.

voxilla

I know I annoy some people here, so you please just ignore my posts.

Calimero, there is one subtle difference because my 'dynamite' snapshots are taken from a point of view outside of the explosion. Your snapshots are taken from a 'molecule' which is part of the explosion.

bapowell

Do you have any idea why a white dwarf explodes when it acquires too much mass? I'm guessing no, or else you'd realize that the mechanism at play here is not relevant -- at all -- to a black hole. In other words, it's not that a black hole "might" explode. It won't. One way to find this out is to learn about them. Unless you take the time to actually learn some astrophysics and cosmology, you are wasting your time as well as ours.

phinds

The problem is that those of who are here to learn physics and to help others learn physics DO get frustrated by someone who persists in refusing to acknowledge reality and persists in espousing a point of view that is demonstrably false.

Calimero took the point of view of being inside the universe because there IS no other point of view. There is NO "outside" to the universe. It does not have a center. It does not have an edge. It did not start at any one place. Again, this is cosmology 101.

If you want to learn more, I recommend:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/astronomy/bigbang.html

Cosmo Novice

Thats preciesly the point. There is no outside viewpoint for the Universe, not only that but most likely if not exactly euclidean flat and infinite then some sort of higher-n manifold like an n-sphere, with no real middle or edge - completely isotropic, the same as a flat universe.

Matt Todd

This is along the lines of what I was thinking, although I'm not comfortable with existing laws of physics, and my maths is poor. My imagination alone isn't going to make this happen, haha. I was thinking that a black hole singularity could be a lot like a neutron star except compressed beyond our understanding of it's limits. If in some way a black hole could have some sort of polar or charged nucleus instead of a singularity, and it merged with an opposite in some way, would it not disrupt and possibly eliminate both black holes resulting in energy?

Cosmo Novice

Black holes only have measurable spin, mass and angular momentum, they have no measurable charge.

We can speculate on anything past the event horizon - common opinion in the field is that the singularity is not likely to exist (A point of infinite density.) more likely our mathematics is flawed and we need a QG modification to GR to remove the mathematical artifact of the singularity.

If two black holes merge you end up with a single black hole of more mass.

Matt Todd

Thank you everyone for helping me attempt to get my head around this.