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scott_alexsk
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What are the monoatomic ions or elements( I am not sure anymore) that make up carbonate? Once this is answered I can ask my real question.
-Scott
-Scott
Even covalent bonds have some polarity (or ionic character) and hence there can be partial charge held by different atoms of the radical. In the carbonate radical, most of the 2- charge is held by two of the three O-atoms (the two that are single-bonded to the C-atom.mrjeffy321 said:the atoms making up the Carbonare ion (Carbon and 3 Oxygens), are not necesarily held together ionicly. The Ion as a whole has a charge, but the individual components of the ion can be held together covalently by sharing electrons.
scott_alexsk said:Knowing what monoatomic ions that make up the carbonate allows me to settle a dispute I have had with several people. Orginally my teacher said that the atoms making up the carbonate were all neutral. I had a feeling they were monoatomic ions involved. Now that I know this do monoatomic ions occur naturally in nature and if so how do they occur and are they stable? I mean how would carbonate come to be. From what elements would oxygen be able to take a single electron, then in another reaction bond with carbon?
The problem with this "discussion" is that the question really makes no sense to the responders and they are trying their best to interpret it in some manner that allows explanation. Scott, either you are wording your posts very poorly, or you are missing key concepts in your understanding.scott_alexsk said:There is the problem. Some people like my chemistry teacher say that there are simply just elements making up these charged structures while others say that there are monoatomic ions making up the element. Repeatedly I have been told by reliable sources that the elements are perfectly neutral but to some structure unknown to me they can have a negative charge overall even though there are no additional electrons. Everyone here seems to have the same problem with answering this question.
-Scott
This may be news to you, but there is NO controversy. It's possible that your chemistry teacher has a poor understanding of the concepts as well, but that's as far any controversy here goes.There has been such a contraversy over what the simple composing elements/ions that make up carbonate.
As Gokul suggested, it might be a good idea to review your Lewis dot diagramsscott_alexsk said:I might as well ask what a resonance structure is because that might have something to do with it and may help in my understanding of the problem.
I really appreciate that and I think I get it. So even though the atoms making up the element are nuetral because of the dislocalization of the double bond, the prevailing outside charge is -2.
Now I think I understand this, but why should the electrons cause a prevailng -2 charge? I mean how does the postion of the double bond electrons with all three oxygens create this charge? How are they postioned to escape the postive charge of the protons? Also is this true with all double bonds in nature (ie similar situation, different atoms)?
LordofBaal said:You must see that the atoms can't be both charged and neutral at the same time. The carbonate ion is charged due to it having 2 extra electrons - no amount of double bond moving will remove this charge.
scott_alexsk said:I thought that the first explanation sounded werid anyways. So how does the carbonate get the -2 charge? Is it that there are monoatomic ions making up carbonate, if so which, or does it gain electrons from a different source?
-Scott
If the ions were monoatomic, they wouldn't be polyatomic. Carbonate is polyatomicscott_alexsk said:I thought that the first explanation sounded werid anyways. So how does the carbonate get the -2 charge? Is it that there are monoatomic ions making up carbonate, if so which, or does it gain electrons from a different source?
-Scott
That's exactly what happens.scott_alexsk said:It is clear to me that it cannot simply just magically take electrons from another atom and remain unbonded
I answered that one the first page, but I'll make it more readable.scott_alexsk said:so how does carbonate occur? What chemical reactions form it and how common is it?
This series of equilibrium reactions is one of the buffer systems in every mamal on the planet.bomba923 said:[tex]\begin{gathered}
{\text{CO}}_2 \left( g \right) + {\text{H}}_2 {\text{O}}\left( \ell \right) \rightleftharpoons {\text{H}}_2 {\text{CO}}_3 \hfill \\
{\text{H}}_2 {\text{CO}}_3 + {\text{H}}_2 {\text{O}} \rightleftharpoons {\text{H}}_3 {\text{O}}^ + + {{\text{HCO}}_3} ^ - \hfill \\
{{\text{HCO}}_3} ^ - + {\text{H}}_2 {\text{O}} \rightleftharpoons {\text{H}}_3 {\text{O}}^ + + {{\text{CO}}_3} ^{2 - } \hfill \\
\end{gathered} [/tex]
You must see that the atoms can't be both charged and neutral at the same time. The carbonate ion is charged due to it having 2 extra electrons - no amount of double bond moving will remove this charge.
The oxygen atom is bonded covalently to the hydrogean atom. The hydrogean atom is stable with two electrons in its outer level. The hydrogean atom contributes only one electron to the octet of oxygen. The other electron required for oxygen to have a stable octet is the one that gives the -1 charge to the ion.
To think that the people who have responded don't know what they are talking about is just wrong, some a quite knowledgeable (and it is best not to push people away that are trying to help).scott_alexsk said:I would appreciate someone responding who actually knows what he or she is talking about. To reitterate, my question is "How can there be a charge
if there is a equal number of protons and electrons, in a polyatomic ion?"
-Scott
This is inline with your book, saying that the Hydroxide ion (and more specifically, the Oxygen side of the Hydroxide) picked up an extra electron.You must see that the atoms can't be both charged and neutral at the same time. The carbonate ion is charged due to it having 2 extra electrons - no amount of double bond moving will remove this charge.
Carbonate is a chemical compound that is made up of carbon and oxygen atoms. It is commonly found in rocks and minerals such as limestone, marble, and chalk.
Carbonate is formed through a process called carbonation, where carbon dioxide gas dissolves in water and reacts with minerals in rocks or soil. It can also be formed through the decomposition of organic matter.
The chemical formula for carbonate is CO32-. This means that it contains one carbon atom and three oxygen atoms, with a charge of -2.
Carbonate has many industrial and commercial uses. It is used in the production of cement, glass, and ceramics. It is also used in water treatment, as a food additive, and in the manufacturing of paper and textiles.
Carbonate plays an important role in regulating the pH of soil and water. It can also act as a buffer against acid rain. However, excessive amounts of carbonate can lead to water pollution and harm aquatic life. In the atmosphere, carbonate compounds contribute to the greenhouse effect and can contribute to climate change.