Solve Nonlinear DE for CM Problem: Brute Force or Smarter?

  • Thread starter gulsen
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In summary: That's an interestingly tractable nonlinear ODE. I think that's the first time I've seen something like that.In summary, the conversation discusses a classical mechanics problem involving a non linear differential equation. The book offers a solution At^n, and the person is wondering how to guess this solution without brute force or guesswork. The conversation also suggests trying to find solutions using initial conditions, but acknowledges that dealing with non linearity is a difficult task and often requires individual problem solving. The conversation ends with a discussion about a tractable nonlinear ODE and the luck involved in finding such a solution.
  • #1
gulsen
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I'm stuck in a classical mechanics problem. I have to solve this equation (actually I need only [tex]\ddot{x}[/tex]) to conclude it:

[tex]x \frac{d^2x}{dt^2} + (\frac{dx}{dt})^2 -gx = 0[/tex]

The book offers a solution [tex]At^n[/tex] and it turns out that it's satisfied for n=2 and A=g/6 . Well, how am I supposed to guess that solution? It doesn't look Euler equation, or anything else I've seen before. Best I could do was to use brute force and expand it to series.

Question is, without this guesswork (and brute force), how can I solve/see it?
 
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  • #2
gulsen said:
I'm stuck in a classical mechanics problem. I have to solve this equation (actually I need only [tex]\ddot{x}[/tex]) to conclude it:

[tex]x \frac{d^2x}{dt^2} + (\frac{dx}{dt})^2 -gx = 0[/tex]

The book offers a solution [tex]At^n[/tex] and it turns out that it's satisfied for n=2 and A=g/6 . Well, how am I supposed to guess that solution? It doesn't look Euler equation, or anything else I've seen before. Best I could do was to use brute force and expand it to series.

Question is, without this guesswork (and brute force), how can I solve/see it?

I can give you a way to guess n=2. Consider:
[tex]xa+v^2-gx=0[/tex]
[tex]v^2=gx-ax[/tex]
[tex]v^2=(g-a)x[/tex]
Which is a variation on [tex]v^2=v_0^2+2a(x-x_0)[/tex], which is only true for constant a, which implies [tex]x=1/2at^2[/tex].

I can't say, however, that this solution is general.

-Dan
 
  • #3
In a word, what I have to say is uuuuugly!

I'll give you the sketch and you can fill in the details.

Generally your equation is a mess since it's non-linear. So I transformed it to make it linear. We may show that:
[tex]a = v \frac{dv}{dx}[/tex]

So: [tex]xa + v^2 - gx = 0[/tex] becomes
[tex]xv \frac{dv}{dx}+v^2-gx = 0[/tex]

[tex]\frac{1}{2} x \frac{d(v^2)}{dx}+ v^2 -gx = 0[/tex]

Now define [tex]f=v^2[/tex] to get
[tex]\frac{1}{2} x \frac{df}{dx} + f - gx = 0[/tex]
which is linear.

Use [tex]x = e^y[/tex] to get
[tex]\frac{df}{dy}+2f=2ge^y[/tex]

which has a solution:
[tex]f(y)=\frac{2}{3}ge^y+Ae^{-2y}[/tex], where A is a constant.

So [tex]f(x)=\frac{2}{3}gx+\frac{A}{x^2}[/tex]

So [tex] \left ( \frac{dx}{dt} \right ) ^2 = \frac{2}{3}gx + \frac{A}{x^2}[/tex]

and after separating variables I get:

[tex]t -t_0= \pm \int_{x_0}^x \frac{dx}{\sqrt{\frac{2}{3}gx + \frac{A}{x^2}}}[/tex]

Which I can't figure out how to integrate. But I find integration (even if it's possible no closed form exists) more tractable than nonlinear differential equations. :smile:

(By the way, [tex]x = 1/6gt^2[/tex] can be got by using A = 0 in the integral.)

-Dan
 
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  • #4
gulsen said:
I'm stuck in a classical mechanics problem. I have to solve this equation (actually I need only [tex]\ddot{x}[/tex]) to conclude it:

[tex]x \frac{d^2x}{dt^2} + (\frac{dx}{dt})^2 -gx = 0[/tex]

The book offers a solution [tex]At^n[/tex] and it turns out that it's satisfied for n=2 and A=g/6 . Well, how am I supposed to guess that solution? It doesn't look Euler equation, or anything else I've seen before. Best I could do was to use brute force and expand it to series.

Question is, without this guesswork (and brute force), how can I solve/see it?

The equation is non linear. Unfortunately there is no general method for solving non linear equations (except some of them). Mankind need to discover more things in this field.

Usual techniques when dealing with at first sight non solvable non linear equations (see for example Benders&Orzsag) is to assume solutions. Before nothing, try to test if easy solutions such as exponentials, powers, logarithms or combinations of those powered to something are general solutions. Usually, when an engineer finds that these are not solutions of the differential equations, he/she will try to work out asymptotic solutions by means of perturbation/multiple scale methods, or to use Frobenius/Taylor expansions conveniently for a series solution.

To sum up: when dealing with non linearity, you are on your own.
 
  • #5
There's another curiosity: have you applied initial conditions?? As you see, you've obtained a general solution without any information of the initial conditions!. That's characteristic of non linear diff equations. Sure there are more solutions out there of your equations which incorporate info of the initial conditions. Maybe you can work out some of them assuming an asymptotic behavior and making a dominant balance...

Good luck.
 
  • #6
To sum up: when dealing with non linearity, you are on your own.
Yikes! That was what I was afraid of!
The initial conditions are [tex]x_0 = h>0[/tex], [tex]v_0 = 0[/tex], [tex]a_0 = 0[/tex]

topsquark, I tried the integral at http://integrals.wolfram.com with this input
Code:
1/( (2/3)*g*x + a/(x^2) )^(1/2)
and it gave a BIG monster!

Thanks for the replies!
 
  • #7
gulsen said:
Yikes! That was what I was afraid of!
The initial conditions are [tex]x_0 = h>0[/tex], [tex]v_0 = 0[/tex], [tex]a_0 = 0[/tex]

topsquark, I tried the integral at http://integrals.wolfram.com with this input
Code:
1/( (2/3)*g*x + a/(x^2) )^(1/2)
and it gave a BIG monster!

Thanks for the replies!

You mean this one right here. It seldom happens that nonlinear ODE-s have solutions which can be expressed in terms of known special functions. But in your case, you got lucky.

Daniel.
 

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  • #8
topsquark said:
We may show that:
[tex]a = v \frac{dv}{dx}[/tex]

Really? I'm not seeing it. Doessn't that in fact say a=va, or v=1 and so x is a line?
 
  • #9
[itex] v=\frac{dx}{dt} [/itex] and so

[tex] \left(a=\right)\frac{dv}{dt}=\frac{dv}{dx}\frac{dx}{dt} [/tex].

Daniel.
 
  • #10
Gah! I was reading it as a =v(dv/dt). Thanks
 
  • #11
dextercioby said:
But in your [gulsen's] case, you got lucky.

That's pretty lucky, I'd say.
 

1. What is a nonlinear differential equation (DE)?

A nonlinear differential equation is a mathematical equation that describes a relationship between a function and its derivatives, where the function itself is nonlinear. This means that the rate of change of the function is not directly proportional to the function itself.

2. What is the CM problem?

The CM problem, also known as the calculus of variations problem, is a mathematical problem that seeks to find the path or function that minimizes a given functional. This functional is typically expressed as an integral of the function over a specific range.

3. What is the difference between solving a nonlinear DE with brute force and using a smarter approach?

Solving a nonlinear DE with brute force involves using numerical methods to approximate the solution, such as Euler's method or the Runge-Kutta method. This can be time-consuming and may not always yield an accurate solution. A smarter approach, on the other hand, involves using analytical or semi-analytical techniques to solve the DE, which can be more efficient and accurate.

4. What are some examples of smarter approaches to solving nonlinear DEs?

Some examples of smarter approaches include separation of variables, substitution, integrating factors, and series solutions. These techniques involve manipulating the DE to make it easier to solve, or using known solutions to similar DEs to find a solution.

5. How do I determine which approach to use when solving a nonlinear DE for the CM problem?

The choice of approach depends on the specific DE and the level of accuracy required. If the DE is complex and does not have a known solution, using a smarter approach may be more efficient. However, if the DE can be easily solved with numerical methods, using a brute force approach may be sufficient. It is also helpful to consult with other experts or consult existing literature on similar problems to determine the most appropriate approach.

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