Two electron relativistic corrections to PE

In summary, the relativistic correction to the e^2/r coulomb law without spin between two electrons is given by V(r) = -(Ze2/4π)1/r - (Ze4/60π2m2) δ(r), where the delta function limits its effect to S states. This correction is partially responsible for the Lamb shift. However, the corrections due to quantum gravity are out of experimental reach. There is an extension to spin 1/2 fermions, but the original paper focused on scalar particles. To get more accurate results, it is recommended to match with more state of the art calculations.
  • #1
qsa
353
1
What is the relativitic correction to the e^2/r coulomb law without spin between two electrons.second order is enough.
 
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  • #2
Second order in what ? Standard references mention a correction proportional to the 4th power of momentum, if the electron's and the proton's spin are neglected.
 
  • #3
dextercioby said:
Second order in what ? Standard references mention a correction proportional to the 4th power of momentum, if the electron's and the proton's spin are neglected.

I guess I wanted the next most significant correction term, also I want electron-electron not electron-proton(which is usually given as hydrogen atom). Can you please post some links to the standerd references that you mentioned.
 
  • #4
Why would electron-electron have a different functional form than electron-proton?
 
  • #5
Vanadium 50 said:
Why would electron-electron have a different functional form than electron-proton?

of course they shouln't but in case of hydrogen the system is in a bound state, I am not interested at such complication(if any) at this time.
 
  • #6
What is the relativistic correction to the e^2/r coulomb law?

To the next order, V(r) = -(Ze2/4π)1/r - (Ze4/60π2m2) δ(r)

I know the delta function looks weird, like it was something just stuck in by hand. But that's really the result. It looks more sensible in momentum space, where

V(k) ~ k-2 (1 - (e2/60π2m2) k2 + ...)

and the Fourier transform of the second term is the Fourier transform of 1, which is a delta function.
 
  • #7
I think you're looking for something like this qsa

Effective Field Theory of Gravity: Leading Quantum Gravitational Corrections to Newtons and Coulombs Law

where the first order correction is shown to be an additional

3G(m1+m2)/(r*c^2)

(multiplied by the classical coloumb term)

(obviously m1=m2 for the electron, and r is the separation)

But, personally, I would give up running naive random models in the hope of getting physical laws, you'll go crazy. If your new model matches this formula it's still not a big deal, especially not if you don't explain how it's constrained in a coherent and simple manner.
 
  • #8
Bill_K said:
To the next order, V(r) = -(Ze2/4π)1/r - (Ze4/60π2m2) δ(r)

I know the delta function looks weird, like it was something just stuck in by hand. But that's really the result. It looks more sensible in momentum space, where

V(k) ~ k-2 (1 - (e2/60π2m2) k2 + ...)

and the Fourier transform of the second term is the Fourier transform of 1, which is a delta function.

Thank you. what is the order of magnitude of the extra term (lets say for Z=1)

(Ze4/60π2m2) δ(r)

is there any experimental confirmation. Do you have any links.
 
  • #9
unusualname said:
I think you're looking for something like this qsa

Effective Field Theory of Gravity: Leading Quantum Gravitational Corrections to Newtons and Coulombs Law

where the first order correction is shown to be an additional

3G(m1+m2)/(r*c^2)

(multiplied by the classical coloumb term)

(obviously m1=m2 for the electron, and r is the separation)

But, personally, I would give up running naive random models in the hope of getting physical laws, you'll go crazy. If your new model matches this formula it's still not a big deal, especially not if you don't explain how it's constrained in a coherent and simple manner.

This is another story for another time since these corrections are out of reach of experiment. Bill_K gave the correct answer. As for my model ,you know I cannot talk about it here, I will send you an email soon with the latest results(maybe alpha up to eight digits).
 
  • #10
The reference for the expression I quoted is Bjorken and Drell, Vol I, Sect 8.2 on Vacuum Polarization, especially Eq 8.27. The delta function in the second term limits its effect to S states, since they are the only ones whose wavefunction does not vanish at the origin. This term is partially responsible for the Lamb shift, however the contribution to the Lamb shift from other effects is larger.
 
  • #11
qsa said:
This is another story for another time since these corrections are out of reach of experiment. Bill_K gave the correct answer. As for my model ,you know I cannot talk about it here, I will send you an email soon with the latest results(maybe alpha up to eight digits).


The paper says the corrections due to quantum gravity ( ~ Gh/(r^2c^3) ) are out of experimental reach, the relativistic correction is ~ Gm/(rc^2) (it summarises this in the summary).

But the paper talks about scalar (spin 0) particles (which is what you asked for) so wouldn't directly apply to a realistic situation (it mentions that there is an extension to spin 1/2 fermions)

I guess you just wanted radiative correction from qed (eg Landau & Lifgarbagez, Vol 4 QED 2nd Ed p 504).

Maybe if you get more decimal places you can try to match it with something more state of the art, good luck!
 
  • #12
Thanks to both of you. I wonder if this is from Breit or just Dirac. can anybody else help, I appreciate it? Is there a relation between bound and not bound states?
 

1. What is the significance of two electron relativistic corrections to PE?

The two electron relativistic corrections to PE, or potential energy, are important because they account for the relativistic effects of the interactions between two electrons in a system. These corrections are necessary for accurate calculations of energy levels and properties of atoms and molecules.

2. How are two electron relativistic corrections calculated?

The most commonly used method for calculating two electron relativistic corrections is through the use of the Breit-Pauli Hamiltonian, which includes terms for the spin-orbit interaction and the relativistic mass correction. These corrections can also be calculated using other methods such as the Douglas-Kroll-Hess approach or the fully relativistic Dirac equation.

3. What is the difference between one electron and two electron relativistic corrections?

One electron relativistic corrections only take into account the effects of a single electron in an atom or molecule, while two electron relativistic corrections consider the interactions between two electrons. One electron corrections are typically used for lighter elements, while two electron corrections are necessary for heavier elements with more complex electronic structures.

4. How do two electron relativistic corrections impact the energy levels of atoms and molecules?

Two electron relativistic corrections can have a significant impact on the energy levels of atoms and molecules, particularly for heavier elements. These corrections can shift energy levels and alter the relative energies of different electronic states, which can affect the properties and behavior of chemical systems.

5. Can two electron relativistic corrections be neglected in calculations?

No, two electron relativistic corrections cannot be neglected in calculations as they are necessary for accurate predictions of energy levels and properties of atoms and molecules. Neglecting these corrections can lead to significant errors and inaccuracies in calculations, particularly for heavier elements.

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