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I don't think "be yourself" is great advice. Most people aren't quite sure what 'yourself' is.
verty said:I don't think "be yourself" is great advice. Most people aren't quite sure what 'yourself' is.
If you aren't sure what "yourself" is, then you have bigger issues than asking out girls/women. I suggest spending time in a psychologist's office figuring out why you don't know who you are before you even bother trying to ask anyone out if you don't already know the answer to that question.
JasonRox said:people think they know themselves simply because they are themselves.
cyrusabdollahi said:Neither, I am simply saying that sounds like a bunch of crap.
"people think they know themselves simply because they are themselves."
What a bunch of nonsense.
cyrusabdollahi said:Neither, I am simply saying that sounds like a bunch of crap.
"people think they know themselves simply because they are themselves."
What a bunch of nonsense.
Actually it is quite true. People who lack introspection really don't 'know' themselves, and some or much behavior can be automatic or conditioned. Some people lack impulse control, and they really don't know or realize that component of their behavior. I wouldn't have believed if my wife (who has degrees in psychology) hadn't shown me examples first hand.cyrusabdollahi said:"people think they know themselves simply because they are themselves."
verty said:So knowing yourself is basically having a solid foundation for your personality. People without solid foundations are flaky, they change with the seasons and don't have firm convictions, etc. They don't quite know what they want.
dontdisturbmycircles said:What does it mean to know yourself? I am curiously interested in what you guys mean. I know myself, I know my core values, I know how I was raised and what separates my values from others. I don't wake up one day and turn on the TV and think "Hmmmm, now how would I react to that?" I already know... Ironically, because I am myself!
Seriously, if you believe what other people tell you about yourself, regardless if it's true or not, that's just plain weird.
twisting_edge said:But do you know before you react how you will feel tomorrow about your reaction today? That'd be the short & sweet acid test of knowing yourself in my book. It doesn't mean you can't have morning after regrets, just that you don't have unanticipated morning after regrets.
There's a good deal more to it than that, but the rest goes hand in hand with it. For example, you shouldn't hold opinions that lead to mutually exclusive conclusions, or at least be aware of the ones that are. If you do have such opinions that are ultimately mutually exclusive, you're eventually going to make a decision based on one opinion and only later find out it violates the other opinion.
verty said:I don't think we emerge knowing that. It's something to be learned. I also think it's rather subtle. I have often heard a mother say something like "my son/daughter knows what he/she wants to grow up to become", when very often I can read that as "they know what I want them to become". How many children disobey their parents when they become teenagers? If that's not a voyage of self-discovery, I don't know what is.
verty said:Who you are orients your life; your life shouldn't orient who you are.
verty said:It's like a ship that is sailing somewhere, it should pretty much go in a straight line or at least a polyline rather than following the currents.
The conflict is usually because your parents' views on your personality and what you should or shouldn't be doing are not consistent with your own views. If you didn't know who you are and just went along with what everyone else told you, there wouldn't be any conflict.
I most certainly would. I can't think of a good example of this because I usually see these things coming long before the problem arises. I consider all my other opinions on various related matters before forming new opinions. Many people do not.dontdisturbmycircles said:I think that Astronuc also made a good point. By introspection we can perhaps change how we feel about certain things, but I don't think I would call it finally finding out my 'true' opinion or something. Would you?
Anyways, if your ship went in a straight line, you'd always know where you'd end up. And that ain't always the best thing, is it?
Moonbear said:Well, I'll agree with you on the flaky part. Seriously, if you believe what other people tell you about yourself, regardless if it's true or not, that's just plain weird. The whole "I need to go find myself" stuff is Oprah-style psychobabble in my opinion. If someone is so delusional that they can't even recognize their own personality traits, they do need a psychologist...or psychiatrist. Don't you know what you like, or don't like, or if you're a morning person, or night-owl, or prefer to be left alone or like to hang out in crowds, or are usually a happy person, or more often sullen and sulky? How the heck do you NOT know this about yourself? And, why would you take someone elses opinion about your personality as more important than your own?
Moonbear said:Well, I'll agree with you on the flaky part. Seriously, if you believe what other people tell you about yourself, regardless if it's true or not, that's just plain weird. The whole "I need to go find myself" stuff is Oprah-style psychobabble in my opinion. If someone is so delusional that they can't even recognize their own personality traits, they do need a psychologist...or psychiatrist. Don't you know what you like, or don't like, or if you're a morning person, or night-owl, or prefer to be left alone or like to hang out in crowds, or are usually a happy person, or more often sullen and sulky? How the heck do you NOT know this about yourself? And, why would you take someone elses opinion about your personality as more important than your own?
JasonRox said:It's more than that Moonbear. Knowing yourself is much more than just knowing you like to be alone, and like certain things. It goes much deeper than that.
But that wasn't to imply people didn't already know themselves. It was intended that to understand the world around you, look to yourself first.Socrates himself said "Know thyself."
http://www2.nd.edu/Departments/Maritain/etext/hop07.htmHistory of Philosophy said:But, whereas the Sophists had forthwith given up the search after truth, Socrates insisted that by reflecting on our own mental constitution we may learn to determine the conditions of knowledge, to form concepts as they ought to be formed, and by this means place the principles of conduct as well as the principles of knowledge on a solid scientific foundation. Know thyself (gnôthi seauton): this is the sum of all philosophy. From the consideration of the objective world (nature) we must turn to the study of the subjective (self).
In a lot of cases, there's no new information involved. People have just bought into one side or another of an argument. But there's a broader point than that. Opinions are just the most tangible aspects (and not very tangible at that, I might point out).Moonbear said:The only examples anyone is giving of anything are things like their opinions change as they get older. That's not that you didn't know yourself before, it's that as you learn new things about the world around you, any honest person will adjust their views on things with greater knowledge about those things. That's not changing knowledge about yourself, that's changing knowledge about things in the world around you.
But does that really mean they don't know themselves? Or does it just mean they are being dishonest with other people? I mean, I know people who have put on the pretense of objecting to extramarital affairs while having one of their own. Sometimes such things are done to avoid the judgement of others (they don't actually condemn other people in extramarital affairs, but don't admit to it around people who would), and sometimes it's just that they're selfish people (they are judgemental of others, but when it comes to themselves, the rules change if it isn't convenient to follow them...do as I say, not as I do types).twisting_edge said:I think my earlier acid test still works, and a lot of people fail it. It usually shows up as hypocrisy when seen from the outside. The wingnuts who lecture me on global warming but drive SUVs are a good example. Jealous lovers almost always have the worst track record on infidelity. The list goes on. Almost every one of them will deny being a hypocrit, too.
But even that isn't the end of it. There's the simple matter of making up your mind. If you are self aware, it's generally easy to make up your mind because there's fewer confliciting opinions you're going to have to reconcile later. "If I do this, I'm going to regret it later because of that." If there's less of "that" floating around out there, it's easier to figure out the "right" thing for you to do.
Whether or not you actually do the "right" thing is another matter altogether. But if you can't even figure out in advance what the "right" thing is, the odds of you doing something you'll regret later skyrockets.
Moonbear said:I still just don't see how this distinguishes between knowing yourself or not. Some people are notoriously impulsive and regret things they do later because they didn't stop to think about it before they did it, but that IS who they are. Knowing they have made mistakes like that in the past doesn't stop them from continuing to make impulsive choices, and doesn't make it any easier for them to train themselves to stop and think before acting. I don't really know what impulsive people are thinking, but it just seems that the problem isn't that they wouldn't know they would regret something if they thought about it before doing it, it's that they just act too quickly and don't think about something and all the consequences down the line.
JasonRox said:Impulsive people generally act according to how they feel, which is their emotions, which isn't always consistent with you they are. That's why it matters when you do something regretful or not. The idea is to not act in according to emotions and to act according to rationality. Sure it's still YOU in the physical world.
dontdisturbmycircles said:I made a post in the philosophy forum so that we can sort of separate the two different topics here - Knowing yourself, and dating. Could we move the knowing yourself topic to this thread please?
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=1226793#post1226793