Where is the center of the universe?

Fredrik

Quote by Genx63

Ok maybe this is just too much for me to understand. I try to look at everything in its simplest form. If you were able to travel beyond the limits of the universe (if there is such a thing) and look back on it would it not have a geometric shape? If so, wouldn't that shape have a center point? Whether or not it is expanding or contracting it still has a shape. Unless you know the physical dimensions you can't calculate it but it still has to have one. It's my uneducated opinion that one day we will gain enough knowledge about the physical universe that all the knowledge we have now will seem like stone age nonsense. I appeal to all you free thinkers out there. Don't let the so called scientific authorities tell you that your ideas are wrong or impossible. The earth is not really flat!

And yet you're suggesting that people should rely on their intuition even though science has proved that many of the things we intuitively "know" to be true are actually false.

phinds

Quote by Genx63

Ok maybe this is just too much for me to understand. I try to look at everything in its simplest form. If you were able to travel beyond the limits of the universe (if there is such a thing) and look back on it would it not have a geometric shape?
...

Well, whether it is too much for you to understand or not, it is reality to the best of anyone's ability to figure it out. There IS no edge or outside, so the rest of your post is not meaningful

Drakkith

What everyone here means is that it is simply a waste of time to talk about anything "outside" the universe because even if there is an outside to the universe we cannot see it, interact with it, or anything else. It is absolutely unscientific to try to develop theories based on the "outside view" of the universe, no matter how much they may make sense to us or not. This is akin to trying to explain gravity being caused by fairies that we can't see or interact with in any way pulling everyone down to the ground. The end effect is the same; we are attracted to the Earth. Yet a theory that remains based on observations and math is far better than one based on fairies, as the former requires us to make up far few things. The simplest answer is *usually* the best.

*ynot1*

Quote by Genx63

If you were able to travel beyond the limits of the universe (if there is such a thing) and look back on it would it not have a geometric shape?

Can something without a surface have a shape? Strange.

bmehmud

So what I understand is that anything beyond physical laws is not to be studied or should not be studied? Say we try to study the creation process instead what is already created, God has a physical presence or not? I think there is a study of things we can not prove by physics.

Drakkith

Quote by bmehmud

So what I understand is that anything beyond physical laws is not to be studied or should not be studied? Say we try to study the creation process instead what is already created, God has a physical presence or not? I think there is a study of things we can not prove by physics.

No, the point is that anything beyond physical laws CANNOT be studied. It isn't possible. To study something requires that we be able to interact with it. Things that are beyond that aren't capable of being studied. That's why we don't even try. How would we be able to prove anything? Who's to say which models are right and which models are wrong without any evidence?

Fredrik

Quote by bmehmud

So what I understand is that anything beyond physical laws is not to be studied or should not be studied? Say we try to study the creation process instead what is already created, God has a physical presence or not? I think there is a study of things we can not prove by physics.

Science is about coming up with theories and finding out how accurate their predictions are, and something that can't be used to make predictions about results of experiments is not a theory. Statements like "there's a god" or "the universe was created" aren't theories. They're just garbage.

Edit: If I had seen Drakkith's post before I wrote this, I probably wouldn't have replied. I totally agree with what he said.

Chronos

This is a discussion of first principles, which by defintion, is unprovable.

phinds

Quote by bmehmud

I think there is a study of things we can not prove by physics.

If you wish. But NOT on this forum. You misunderstand the purpose of this forum. Read the rules.

bmehmud

Quote by phinds

If you wish. But NOT on this forum. You misunderstand the purpose of this forum. Read the rules.

Knowledge is knowledge whether it relates to physics, science, biology, or eschatology. We as a human have critical minds, we have eager to acquire knowledge whether through books or internet. I will keep asking questions and appreciate if worthy people like you reply my stupid questions. Cheers.

*ynot1*

Quote by Chronos

This is a discussion of first principles, which by defintion, is unprovable.

Good point. All the evidence in the world cannot prove anything. All the fossils on earth cannot prove evolution, and all the global warming cannot prove man-made global warming. People have been testing relativity for 100+ years and never give up hope. Ignorance is not stupidity. Ignorance is all about ignoring the evidence. I guess hope springs eternal against all odds.

*DaveC426913*

You guys are misunderstanding.

Quote by bmehmud

Knowledge is knowledge whether it relates to physics, science, biology, or eschatology. We as a human have critical minds, we have eager to acquire knowledge whether through books or internet. I will keep asking questions and appreciate if worthy people like you reply my stupid questions. Cheers.

There is knowledge and there is speculation. We can only have knowledge about things for which we can verify with evidence.

Quote by ynot1

Good point. All the evidence in the world cannot prove anything. All the fossils on earth cannot prove evolution, and all the global warming cannot prove man-made global warming. People have been testing relativity for 100+ years and never give up hope. Ignorance is not stupidity. Ignorance is all about ignoring the evidence. I guess hope springs eternal against all odds.

Yes. Science is not about proving theories. It is about forming predictive models. We have evidence that our models of evolution, global warming and relativity are accurate. We have no evidence of what preceded the BB.

D H

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bmehmud	So what I understand is that anything beyond physical laws is not to be studied or should not be studied? Say we try to study the creation process instead what is already created, God has a physical presence or not? I think there is a study of things we can not prove by physics.

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