Is going to lecture a huge waste of time?

Choppy

This comes across as a little arrogant to me. People learn in different ways. And lots of people, if not most BOTH attend lectures and read the text.

Based on a single mid-term you've found a system that works for you. That's great. But why would you call someone lazy who learns in a different way?

You're equating "probably won't be escourted out by security" with "free to attend."

Dembadon

Wow, you must be extremely intelligent; you're only in your first year and you've already figured out that lectures are of no use to you. You have also found some way of knowing that all of your future professors and classes will be the same as the ones you're in right now. Incredible! Have you ever considered dropping the whole engineering thing and going straight for the Nobel?

Number Nine

You must have some very unqualified instructors.
Nothing compares to learning from an expert in the field; all of the most rewarding experiences in my academic life have involved interacting with my professors, either during classes/seminars, or in the lab itself.

Haborix

Well, this is all very interesting. I reconcile high tuition costs by considering what I gain from lectures. There is one driving reason that keeps me going to lecture. Here it is...

Every professor is different and comes from a different place/background. More than likely they see something in a way that is unique. They see a concept from a point of view that most don't, and all professors have their own little jewel. AND! All you have to do is go to lecture to gain access to the their view of things. If I sit in a class an entire semester and only get ONE unique point of view or idea then IT WAS WORTH IT. Each professor can offer you something that no other can.

Feynman always talked about seeing things from a different point of view. Now, maybe you have a different goal with your education, but if you want to do any research or solve any new problems you need to see things from all possible angles, even ones you don't know exist... yet!

Best of Luck,
Eric

Mépris

What makes an instructor qualified? A PhD? If yes, then you're probably wrong. If "good teaching skills/aptitude"? Then YMMV.

What works for you won't work for somebody else. I was watching a lecture on YouTube on multivariable calc (this one) and I didn't like it at all. Curiously, many of the comments for the video are positive and it's the first result that's returned on YT when one enters the words "multivariable calculus" in the search field. The cool thing with YouTube is you can close that tab and go view Berkeley's multivariable calculus lecture (I like this one better). It really sucks if you're spending bucket loads of money to attend an institution where the majority of your lecturers are not lecturing in a style that's not appropriate for you. Note: I'm not saying anyone is rubbish.

If I can't convince the admissions committee of US colleges A, B & C that I'm worth the money they're gonna spend on me, I'm going *elsewhere*. Where it's dirt cheap, comfortable enough to live and where I can still get a good maths/physics education. At the end of the 3-4 years, I'll still be getting out of the program with something that says BS Physics, so what does it matter anyway.

johng23

This comment seemed to draw a lot of criticism, but I have absolutely experienced this. I have met multiple people who wouldn't think of reading the book chapters. I studied the chapters front to back. Reading a book by yourself requires you to think harder - those who wouldn't read it are the same people who just go to office hours to drag all the information they can out of the apathetic TA. I have been to office hours about twice in my life, and I was amazed at the sort of information the TA was just freely giving out.

Edin_Dzeko

Arrogance and learning don't mix.

Choppy

I think you're missing the point of the criticism.

Obviously there are lazy people out there. I've met them. I've taught them (or at least tried to).

But Coreluccio's argument was that lectures are for people too lazy to read the course material - and this appears to imply that if you go to lectures, you're being lazy and not learning the material for yourself. While there will be cases where this is true, it most certainly does not apply gobally.

ashnek

Well i understood Coreluccio's argument in another way, it sounded like most classes were made so that their purpose was to give the material so you wouldnt have to look it up in the book aka for lazy people, it doesnt imply that you are lazy if you go its just the way its done.
Im not saying all teachers do that, sadly most of the ones i had were like that but the bad classes i attended were pure recitation of the book

Dembadon

Not only that, but he's deduced this while only in his first year of an engineering program.

coreluccio

Most students don't read the textbook. I've seen it first hand. I didn't go to a single Chem lecture and smoked the class average by 30%. I read the book, fully understood the material, did problems, and the test was a joke for me. In contrast, most of the class just went to class, attempted the problem sets from the book that the prof assigned, and maybe reviewed the lecture notes. Not everyone operates like this, but the majority seem to.

romsofia

Did you get 100% on this test?
If not, this test obviously wasn't a joke, and a few people who went to the lecture got equal/higher scores than you.

This discussion is clear: For some people the lecture is a waste of time, while for others it isn't.

johng23

What you're saying is that it's possible to do well without going to any lectures. I doubt anyone would deny that. That doesn't necessarily imply that lectures are a waste of time.

GregJ

1st year hmm? This will change soon enough

coreluccio

Just thought I'd update on my progress. Finished up my 1st term of engineering and now have all my grades back. I got a 3.8/4.0 GPA and was one bombed midterm (got a bad night's sleep, unfortunately) from a perfect 4.0. I didn't attend a single lecture after the first week of school. Lectures, at least for me, are a waste of time.

mathwonk

please don't let me get you as a doctor (engineer, architect, lawyer...) , if you think the purpose of school is just to get decent grades. did it ever dawn on you that attending class might have taught you something valuable by listening to the carefully prepared lectures of someone who knows more than you do? If you attend school at any reasonable school at all, and do not attend every class when you are not sick, you are.... I cannot say this politely so I leave it to your imagination, but it rhymes with *****.

If you are indeed correct in your behavior, then why are you paying to attend a school where the lectures are not useful? Are you a talented student who has accepted a bribe to attend a school for imbeciles? Do you realize how you will be regarded when you exit such a school?

My apologies but obviously I regard this as one of the most clueless threads I have ever seen here.

deRham

I don't think classes / lectures in general are terrible. It's probably more ideal to have someone record the lectures for the giant classes that teach an introductory subject to a bunch of students.

The major value of classes as opposed to purely individual instruction is that they present material at one time in the format and with the choice of material of someone who supposedly has a perspective you may want to hear. A perspective that really crystallizes how to think about something, which may not be immediately present in all the books.

Chances are, by looking up 10 different books and researching various notes written by various people, you can figure out a reasonably good perspective on a topic. But if an expert already is there to tell you about that stuff, why not?

It was said you can leave the school if it's not offering what you want. I ask: well, why even the school? One can leave the class. Take a different one!

Independent studying is great too. A lot of things have to be learned that way. But it simply doesn't make sense to me why a professor can't present a ton of stuff in an organized fashion in a single class that a student really wants to understand well.

There are a LOT of poor classes conducted out there, which I myself would skip if I had to take them. But that's the point -- I usually wouldn't have to take them, and indeed, I wouldn't have chosen to.