16 years old and an aspiring physicist

[MattMcgt]

Hi, my name is Matt, I'm 16 years old and an aspiring physicist. I've recently found myself in a position of great uncertainty. I'll provide some background. I was a reasonably successful High School student although academics were secondary to leisure in my life. At the beginning of my junior year I began getting bullied by a few unfavorable human beings, and without getting into all the details, me and my parents decided that withdrawal from the high school was the optimal and frankly only option. As the search began to find a viable alternative to my former school, I became extremely interested in science in general but specifically physics. I never could've fathomed such a curiosity irradiating from me given my prior lethargic attitude towards academics. Anyway, my search for an alternative high school to attend has not yielded ideal results given my states absurd policies pertaining to my situation. I'll only be able to attend a local community college for the next year and a half. I'm worried this will severely inhibit my ability to attend a adequate university. Has anyone else been through a similar process? Any advice at all would be appreciated greatly and I apologize if this was too vague, any feedback at all would be helpful. Thanks, Matt.

 

[Quantum Defect]

Hi, my name is Matt, I'm 16 years old and an aspiring physicist. I've recently found myself in a position of great uncertainty. I'll provide some background. I was a reasonably successful High School student although academics were secondary to leisure in my life. At the beginning of my junior year I began getting bullied by a few unfavorable human beings, and without getting into all the details, me and my parents decided that withdrawal from the high school was the optimal and frankly only option. As the search began to find a viable alternative to my former school, I became extremely interested in science in general but specifically physics. I never could've fathomed such a curiosity irradiating from me given my prior lethargic attitude towards academics. Anyway, my search for an alternative high school to attend has not yielded ideal results given my states absurd policies pertaining to my situation. I'll only be able to attend a local community college for the next year and a half. I'm worried this will severely inhibit my ability to attend a adequate university. Has anyone else been through a similar process? Any advice at all would be appreciated greatly and I apologize if this was too vague, any feedback at all would be helpful. Thanks, Matt.

I think that if you have to attend a community college, that this is not such a bad deal! You will be surrounded by older (more mature) people who are at community college for all sorts of different reasons.

Depending upon the particular community college, you are liable to have teachers who have PhDs in their discipline! My high school physics teacher had a BS in Chemistry (along with a teaching certificate).

I think that you have hit the jackpot!

This should not hurt your chances of getting into any college, I think, and may actually help prepare you for better colleges.

 

[MattMcgt]

My main concern is that the community college will not offer courses such as calculus and/or statistics, both I believe are prerequisites one must obtain/learn during high school to be considered for acceptance at a university for studying physics. My community college is one of the top 5 in the USA so I certainly agree that the academics will be superior to that of my former high school. I am scheduled to meet with the admissions office at the community college tomorrow so hopefully I'll learn more then. I might be overly skeptical but I don't want to take chances with my future. Thanks for the reply!

 

[Quantum Defect]

My main concern is that the community college will not offer courses such as calculus and/or statistics, both I believe are prerequisites one must obtain/learn during high school to be considered for acceptance at a university for studying physics. My community college is one of the top 5 in the USA so I certainly agree that the academics will be superior to that of my former high school. I am scheduled to meet with the admissions office at the community college tomorrow so hopefully I'll learn more then. I might be overly skeptical but I don't want to take chances with my future. Thanks for the reply!

My high school did not offer calculus, and I went to my community college to take it. I would be surprised if yours did not offer calculus too.

 

[MattMcgt]

My high school did not offer calculus, and I went to my community college to take it. I would be surprised if yours did not offer calculus too.

 

[MattMcgt]

Did you take calculus at CC and attend high school simultaneously?

 

[berkeman]

My main concern is that the community college will not offer courses such as calculus and/or statistics,

I would be very surprised if this is the case. Have you checked out their course listings? These courses may only be offered in certain quarters, but you will be there long enough to take them. What math classes have you completed so far? You may need to take a math class or two before Calc, depending on what you have had so far.

 

[QuantumCurt]

Worrying about a community college not offering calculus or statistics is a very needless worry. If there are any community colleges that don't offer these classes, then there can't be more than a handful. These are standard classes that all colleges basically have to offer.

Neither calculus or statistics are prerequisites to studying physics at a university. Physics majors obviously must take calculus, but it is typically taken in college. I've never seen a physics degree that required statistics, but statistics is definitely a worthwhile class to take for a physics major.

 

[ellipsis]

In strongest possible terms: Go to your local CC and talk to a counselor immediately. Do not worry for a second that CCs are less rigorous than universities. They have identical educational content, and you will learn more in a year than you ever did in high school. Your CC probably has an Associates of Science in Physics degree program, or something similar.

If nobody has explained it yet:
Associate's Degree - 2 years - AS (Associates of Science) AA (Associates of Arts)
Bachelor's Degree - 4 years - BS, BA
Master's Degree - 5? years - MS, MA
Doctoral Degree - depends

 

[QuantumCurt]

To clarify the above timeline, for a CC transfer student, they will typically attend the CC for two years and obtain an Associate's. After completing it, they transfer to a 4 year university to complete their Bachelor's. This will typically take two additional years after completing the Associate's, making four years total to complete the Associate's and the Bachelor's. This timeline varies quite a bit though. I'm in my third and final year at CC. I'm transferring to UIUC in the fall, and I'll complete my Bachelor's in 4-5 semesters after transferring.

 

[Quantum Defect]

Did you take calculus at CC and attend high school simultaneously?

I took an evening Calculus class while attending high school. I also took a Biology course in the summer, because I could not fit the HS biology course into my schedule.

 

[jtbell]

[...] calculus and/or statistics, both I believe are prerequisites one must obtain/learn during high school to be considered for acceptance at a university for studying physics.

This is not true in general. First, at most colleges and universities in the US, you apply for admission to the school as a whole, not to a specific major. On the application, they will probably ask you what you plan to major in, if you've already decided. This is mainly for informational purposes, and maybe for assigning you to a suitable academic advisor on the faculty. Many students put down "undecided" at this point.

Second, at most colleges and universities in the US, except maybe schools like MIT and Caltech, the physics major program does not require incoming freshmen to have already taken calculus or even physics in high school. A typical physics major program starts out with calculus and intro physics, by default. It obviously helps if you've taken those subjects in high school, because having seen the material already makes the introductory courses easier for you. If you've taken AP courses and do well on the AP exams, you might even get to skip the introductory courses, but not all schools let you do this.

 

[IGU]

Good questions.

First, people who homeschool use community colleges all the time. It's a perfectly reasonable way to take classes. They vary greatly in quality, and certainly require more self-discipline than the usual high school classes. People often do what is known as "dual enrollment", attending high school and taking CC classes at the same time. This is the cheapest way you can go about graduating high school with transferable college credit (pretty much just the cost of books). Of course the details vary by state and school district, but you should look to see what your local situation is. Note that there are various unusual ways of approaching this and many CC counselors and administrators are completely unaware of what's legal, usual, and possible -- you'll get lots of misinformation. So whenever anybody tells you what the school "policy" is, ask where it's documented and who has the authority to waive requirements. People who are putting their 11 and 12 year olds in CC classes have to deal with these sorts of difficulties all the time. It doesn't sound like that will be a problem for you though. But, if it works in your state, you can generally homeschool and do just the classes you want at the CC. Also, there are programs in some states where specific CC classes are pre-authorized to be accepted for transfer credit at state schools, so it's a good idea to know exactly how that works when you choose your classes -- some credits are more useful than others.

Second, as to the quality of the classes. Check out ratemyprofessor and such sites. The professors who get low ratings because people say they grade too hard and require that homework is actually completed and give difficult tests; those are the ones to go for. Generally avoid big standard classes (like introductory calculus) if you can -- all the sharp kids took it in high school so they'll be teaching it slow and bad, generally from crappy texts like Stewart. Like all schools, there are good classes and bad classes. Choose wisely.

Third, don't ignore the possibility of taking classes at real universities. My homeschooled kid took a variety of classes at San Jose State and Stanford and I got to give him credit for them toward graduating high school. Don't just jump into CC classes before you've looked over other possibilities. There's a lot to be said for just studying on your own if you're up for it, and MOOCs provide a great way to learn all sorts of things if you're serious about them.

Fourth, the more independent of official schools you are, the more important it is to document what you're doing. Top schools accept homeschooled kids all the time. They love that they are self-motivated, independent, and capable. But they do question how serious their education has been, so you want to be able to answer the sorts of questions that engenders.

Last, take a look around on the web for local homeschooler mailing lists and other resources. Join up and ask lots of questions. You'll learn what other people in similar circumstances are doing, what schools and classes have been valuable to people, and what new possibilities for learning exist, many of which you've never considered.

 

[MattMcgt]

Good questions.

First, people who homeschool use community colleges all the time. It's a perfectly reasonable way to take classes. They vary greatly in quality, and certainly require more self-discipline than the usual high school classes. People often do what is known as "dual enrollment", attending high school and taking CC classes at the same time. This is the cheapest way you can go about graduating high school with transferable college credit (pretty much just the cost of books). Of course the details vary by state and school district, but you should look to see what your local situation is. Note that there are various unusual ways of approaching this and many CC counselors and administrators are completely unaware of what's legal, usual, and possible -- you'll get lots of misinformation. So whenever anybody tells you what the school "policy" is, ask where it's documented and who has the authority to waive requirements. People who are putting their 11 and 12 year olds in CC classes have to deal with these sorts of difficulties all the time. It doesn't sound like that will be a problem for you though. But, if it works in your state, you can generally homeschool and do just the classes you want at the CC. Also, there are programs in some states where specific CC classes are pre-authorized to be accepted for transfer credit at state schools, so it's a good idea to know exactly how that works when you choose your classes -- some credits are more useful than others.

Second, as to the quality of the classes. Check out ratemyprofessor and such sites. The professors who get low ratings because people say they grade too hard and require that homework is actually completed and give difficult tests; those are the ones to go for. Generally avoid big standard classes (like introductory calculus) if you can -- all the sharp kids took it in high school so they'll be teaching it slow and bad, generally from crappy texts like Stewart. Like all schools, there are good classes and bad classes. Choose wisely.

Third, don't ignore the possibility of taking classes at real universities. My homeschooled kid took a variety of classes at San Jose State and Stanford and I got to give him credit for them toward graduating high school. Don't just jump into CC classes before you've looked over other possibilities. There's a lot to be said for just studying on your own if you're up for it, and MOOCs provide a great way to learn all sorts of things if you're serious about them.

Fourth, the more independent of official schools you are, the more important it is to document what you're doing. Top schools accept homeschooled kids all the time. They love that they are self-motivated, independent, and capable. But they do question how serious their education has been, so you want to be able to answer the sorts of questions that engenders.

Last, take a look around on the web for local homeschooler mailing lists and other resources. Join up and ask lots of questions. You'll learn what other people in similar circumstances are doing, what schools and classes have been valuable to people, and what new possibilities for learning exist, many of which you've never considered.

Thanks for the helpful information! I'm curious about the type of documentation I need when self-educating. I've been reading many scholarly books/compilations of essays and have also taken some Itunes-U-esque courses, ranging from philosophy to economics, on my own but it's largely been sporadic and unorganized. I plan to do this in tandem with CC courses but I never thought it possible to formalize my "self-education" in a manor that would make it attractive to esteemed universities. Do you have any advice regarding this?

 

[MattMcgt]

To clarify the above timeline, for a CC transfer student, they will typically attend the CC for two years and obtain an Associate's. After completing it, they transfer to a 4 year university to complete their Bachelor's. This will typically take two additional years after completing the Associate's, making four years total to complete the Associate's and the Bachelor's. This timeline varies quite a bit though. I'm in my third and final year at CC. I'm transferring to UIUC in the fall, and I'll complete my Bachelor's in 4-5 semesters after transferring.

Will the quality of your work at CC dictate which colleges are available to you? I have not yet obtained my diploma so I want to verify that hard work (and obviously intellect) will be the factors responsible for my choice of university.

 

[ellipsis]

Will the quality of your work at CC dictate which colleges are available to you? I have not yet obtained my diploma so I want to verify that hard work (and obviously intellect) will be the factors responsible for my choice of university.

You take the GED yet? Or something equivalent in your country.

 

[MattMcgt]

I would be very surprised if this is the case. Have you checked out their course listings? These courses may only be offered in certain quarters, but you will be there long enough to take them. What math classes have you completed so far? You may need to take a math class or two before Calc, depending on what you have had so far.

I've taken Algebra 1 & 2 and Geometry in high school but I have since been educating myself in precalculus, trigonometry and courses of that nature.

 

[MattMcgt]

You take the GED yet? Or something equivalent in your country.

I'm in the process of earning that, I'm currently on schedule to complete that in about 9 months, and yes it's a GED.

 

[ellipsis]

Don't underestimate the value of actual courses in learning about a subject. Autodidacticism will take you far, but there will be gaps in your knowledge - specifically, you will miss the boring, uninteresting little details that students are forced to work through.

The GED is not difficult. Take it sooner. It's designed for working adults who never earned their diploma. Since you are directly out of high school...

 

[MattMcgt]

Don't underestimate the value of actual courses in learning about a subject. Autodidacticism will take you far, but there will be gaps in your knowledge - specifically, you will miss the boring, uninteresting little details that students are forced to work through.

The GED is not difficult. Take it sooner. It's designed for working adults who never earned their diploma.

I started out reading books about physics and what not but have since upgraded to online courses offered by programs like Itunes-U and Khan academy. I found I wasn't submerging myself in the details of Quantum non-locality, for example. My high was certainly not intellectually intellectually stimulating for me but I feel CC will be.

With regards to my GED, I wish I could earn it sooner but I'm too late for the spring semester so I have to take it during the summer, fall, and maybe the following spring semester.

 

[MattMcgt]

In strongest possible terms: Go to your local CC and talk to a counselor immediately. Do not worry for a second that CCs are less rigorous than universities. They have identical educational content, and you will learn more in a year than you ever did in high school. Your CC probably has an Associates of Science in Physics degree program, or something similar.

If nobody has explained it yet:
Associate's Degree - 2 years - AS (Associates of Science) AA (Associates of Arts)
Bachelor's Degree - 4 years - BS, BA
Master's Degree - 5? years - MS, MA
Doctoral Degree - depends

My CC doesn't offer an Associates of Science in Physics program, however it does contain many courses that are necessary to obtain said degree thus allowing me to transfer to a university and earn an Associates there. I do believe they have an Associates of Mathematics in Calculus degree though, would that be worthwhile? This process is completely foreign to me so I appreciate you enlightening me.

 

[ellipsis]

Perhaps they have an Associates of Science in General Sciences, then. If you enter into a math program, you might never come out! (You might become an aspiring mathematician instead)

 

[MattMcgt]

Perhaps they have an Associates of Science in General Sciences, then. If you enter into a math program, you might never come out! (You might become an aspiring mathematician instead)

I'm intrigued by mathematics, physics and philosophy, I believe you can't speak about one without the other. Physics seems to be of superior relevance because it attempts to empirically describe reality, but I must admit, philosophy is like a weak magnet that is ALWAYS fascinating to me, no matter how rigorous my efforts to avoid it are.

 

[IGU]

A GED is utterly useless for getting into most selective universities. You'll get better guidance if you are specific about what state you are in and what your goals are. Do you have some specific university you think is right for you? Have you looked at their admissions web pages to get an idea of what they expect? Once you move outside of the standard mode of education, you have to start thinking and planning for yourself. This is a good thing.

 

[MattMcgt]

A GED is utterly useless for getting into most selective universities. You'll get better guidance if you are specific about what state you are in and what your goals are. Do you have some specific university you think is right for you? Have you looked at their admissions web pages to get an idea of what they expect? Once you move outside of the standard mode of education, you have to start thinking and planning for yourself. This is a good thing.

I live in New Jersey. Will a GED completely restrict me from acceptance to selective universities? I want to attend a university like Stanford or NYU, I haven't looked at their admissions web pages but I have looked at their courses and broad details like acceptance rate. Will sufficient intellect and hard work not be enough for me? I haven't specified a single profession I would like but the subjects I want to study extensively are physics, mathematics, and philosophy. When you say I should plan for myself, what would such a plan entail?

 

[IGU]

Will a GED completely restrict me from acceptance to selective universities?

No, it just won't help you. Universities like Stanford will look at that and think "this kid screwed up in high school and got a diploma using the trivial work-around". You'll be exactly where you are without a GED. And where you are is that Stanford will care that you did well (which usually means good grades) taking difficult classes, that you showed initiative, that you are willing to follow rules and work hard (so you are likely to graduate), etc. The way they tell this is from your high school transcript, class standing, standardized test scores, awards and prizes, etc. So you'll want to do things to get outside validation, like take AP tests, SAT or ACT tests, achievement tests; if you do things like FIRST Robotics or score well in math competitions (AMC, AIME, USAMO, ...) that will impress them. Win a prize at ISEF and you'll get lots of offers. Don't forget to arrange to take the PSAT the year before your last year of high school so you can get a National Merit scholarship. And sure, take CC and university classes.

But be clear on one thing -- your high school diploma matters not at all, it's what you do that matters. If you take an unusual path the college admissions people don't know exactly what to think so they want a coherent explanation and some documentation, which is why it's good to keep records of what you do.

I recommend you join the homeschool to college group (hs2coll). It's a national group of parents who are homeschooling high school, mostly secular. Most are homeschooling because their schools have failed their kids in some way -- sometimes it's bullying but there are many reasons. Occasionally kids post and are welcomed. You'll find people there who are in New Jersey and can help you with local rules. Looking at their archives, I see a post from November 2013 where it is said that The law in NJ requires you to provide an "equivalent" education. Equivalent isn't defined. There is no oversight whatsoever. If this is still the case it makes things relatively easy for somebody in your situation. If you like reading officialese, this looks relevant.

This all seems rather confusing and difficult at first, but it turns out for many people to be an extraordinarily liberating experience. All of a sudden you can do the things you want and need to do, you can stop expending huge amounts of energy on dealing with things like bullying and useless classes you have to take because they say so, and life becomes much better. Just for reference, I have four kids -- one was homeschooled from 8th grade on and is now at university, one went to the CC for the last two years of high school (and so graduated high school with lots of college credit, but decided to not continue his formal education beyond that), and two went through school in pretty much the usual way (the older is now at university and the younger is a junior in high school). Be assured that there are many, many excellent paths to where you wish to go. There's no reason to rush into things without understanding the alternatives. The most important thing is to think hard about what you want, without limits, and then consider how to best approximate that in the real world.

As this level of advice is getting a bit personal and specific and perhaps not generally useful, you might want to PM me if you want to discuss this further.

 

[Cake]

Alright, so I'm going to lay things out plainly because I am a year and a half into my physics undergrad at a CC, I am very likely to transfer to a good school in my state according to transfer counselors at both my CC and that college (It's a top 50 US school just fyi) and I also happen to have a GED. So here are some things that others told me what to do and what I actually ended up doing.

You don't need an associate's degree in anything to transfer to a 4 year school. You only need a sufficient amount of credits (45-60 typically) with good grades to make up for any high school record you have. If you have a 3.5+ GPA with 45 credits of work, especially in classes like calculus and physics, nobody cares what you did in high school, or even if you have a GED. An associate's looks ok, but it's not any different than 60 credits in your major to any of the schools I've applied to. Only some schools like University of Washington and UCSD have in their transfer pages that they sometimes prioritize Associate's holders, but they typically amend that with saying 2 years of coursework is equivalent.

So what do you do now? The first thing you need to do is take the placement test at your CC. They'll put you where you need to be math wise which is the most important thing you can do because you don't want to be thrown into calculus if your algebra and trig aren't up to speed. Take those prerequisites and study them like nothing else. If you place into precalc/trig, you should take an algebra based physics class as well to prepare you for the calculus level (Even if it's not required :D). This will be a good indicator of how you will like physics and basic lab work. This is what I did my first semester (Precalc/Trig/Algebra-based Physics), and I highly recommend it.

Every community college offers Calculus 1 and 2 that I've ever known. Many offer Calculus 3, Linear Algebra, and Differential Equations. And most offer Calculus Mechanics and Electricity/Magnetism. You should take ALL these classes that you can. Most 4-year schools within your state will accept them straight out and you'll save a ton of money. Check your school catalog to see what's offered.

You should be learning to program through all of this. If you haven't already read all the posts everywhere on the internet saying this, here it is now: If you can't program, then you can't do science. If you aren't comfortable learning on your own, sign up for some computer science courses at your CC. You'll probably start with Java, which will teach you the basics of how to program. Take Python or C for a start if you can though. This is what I did and again, highly recommended.

You should take some courses to meet the general education requirements as well. Two foreign language classes are usually advisable if you haven't had 4 years of it in high school. And take a writing course. Those are the big ones Universities look for. As for more, the rigor of the courses do matter. A university is less likely to accept you into their programs if you took mostly easy humanities courses, so don't go overboard with these kinds of classes. Stick to the classes relevant to your major if you have to pick between a Gen. Ed and a major course.

Next, if you do well in your math courses your first semester, try to get involved with the tutoring centers at your school. Every CC has them. You'll mainly be helping people with basic arithmetic and algebra. It may be stuff many of us can do in our heads, but for some people nothing is harder than adding fractions. You'll be paid pretty ok (I get 9.50/hr) so you can have some spending money. And if your boss is a professor, and they typically are, you can get a letter of recommendation out of it.

Next, you need to be that guy who talks to his/her professors. I don't mean brown nosing. You need to be interactive in class, respond to questions by your teacher, and do more than just the required problems for homework. If you have the same professor for two or more classes like I did, and they see you as a hard working and inquisitive student who goes above and beyond, they're likely to be more helpful. Don't throw your extra work in their face, but do hard problems, and ask questions about concepts that may not be covered in class. I've known people who got good letters of recommendation by doing these things, and have had two written for me in similar circumstances.

To sum it up, your fears are unwarranted. You'll be getting an inexpensive, early start to college. And it is significantly easier for someone with a 3.5+ GPA from a CC to get into a 4-year university than someone with a 3.5 out of high school. But the same rules apply. You have to work hard, go above and beyond, and make every class count. Don't feel like if you don't go to an Ivy like Stanford you won't make it as a physicist. The average GPA to transfer into a school like that is typically a 3.8-4.0. I know CMU is a 3.8 as a reference. So if you do that good and still don't get in, just keep going. If you've made it through your intro courses in physics and Calculus with A's, that's better than the bulk of people who take those classes at ANY four years school.

Study hard, get A's, surround yourself with like minded people, stay close with the people you love who believe in you, and make sure Physics is REALLY what you want. Do that, and a 4 year college won't be hard to get into.

EDIT: If you have a particular school in mind to transfer to in your state, they probably have a pdf dedicated to how your CC's classes transfer into their school, and what they look for in applicants. Talk to transfer counselors at both your CC and the university you want to transfer to.

 

[MattMcgt]

Alright, so I'm going to lay things out plainly because I am a year and a half into my physics undergrad at a CC, I am very likely to transfer to a good school in my state according to transfer counselors at both my CC and that college (It's a top 50 US school just fyi) and I also happen to have a GED. So here are some things that others told me what to do and what I actually ended up doing.

You don't need an associate's degree in anything to transfer to a 4 year school. You only need a sufficient amount of credits (45-60 typically) with good grades to make up for any high school record you have. If you have a 3.5+ GPA with 45 credits of work, especially in classes like calculus and physics, nobody cares what you did in high school, or even if you have a GED. An associate's looks ok, but it's not any different than 60 credits in your major to any of the schools I've applied to. Only some schools like University of Washington and UCSD have in their transfer pages that they sometimes prioritize Associate's holders, but they typically amend that with saying 2 years of coursework is equivalent.

So what do you do now? The first thing you need to do is take the placement test at your CC. They'll put you where you need to be math wise which is the most important thing you can do because you don't want to be thrown into calculus if your algebra and trig aren't up to speed. Take those prerequisites and study them like nothing else. If you place into precalc/trig, you should take an algebra based physics class as well to prepare you for the calculus level (Even if it's not required :D). This will be a good indicator of how you will like physics and basic lab work. This is what I did my first semester (Precalc/Trig/Algebra-based Physics), and I highly recommend it.

Every community college offers Calculus 1 and 2 that I've ever known. Many offer Calculus 3, Linear Algebra, and Differential Equations. And most offer Calculus Mechanics and Electricity/Magnetism. You should take ALL these classes that you can. Most 4-year schools within your state will accept them straight out and you'll save a ton of money. Check your school catalog to see what's offered.

You should be learning to program through all of this. If you haven't already read all the posts everywhere on the internet saying this, here it is now: If you can't program, then you can't do science. If you aren't comfortable learning on your own, sign up for some computer science courses at your CC. You'll probably start with Java, which will teach you the basics of how to program. Take Python or C for a start if you can though. This is what I did and again, highly recommended.

You should take some courses to meet the general education requirements as well. Two foreign language classes are usually advisable if you haven't had 4 years of it in high school. And take a writing course. Those are the big ones Universities look for. As for more, the rigor of the courses do matter. A university is less likely to accept you into their programs if you took mostly easy humanities courses, so don't go overboard with these kinds of classes. Stick to the classes relevant to your major if you have to pick between a Gen. Ed and a major course.

Next, if you do well in your math courses your first semester, try to get involved with the tutoring centers at your school. Every CC has them. You'll mainly be helping people with basic arithmetic and algebra. It may be stuff many of us can do in our heads, but for some people nothing is harder than adding fractions. You'll be paid pretty ok (I get 9.50/hr) so you can have some spending money. And if your boss is a professor, and they typically are, you can get a letter of recommendation out of it.

Next, you need to be that guy who talks to his/her professors. I don't mean brown nosing. You need to be interactive in class, respond to questions by your teacher, and do more than just the required problems for homework. If you have the same professor for two or more classes like I did, and they see you as a hard working and inquisitive student who goes above and beyond, they're likely to be more helpful. Don't throw your extra work in their face, but do hard problems, and ask questions about concepts that may not be covered in class. I've known people who got good letters of recommendation by doing these things, and have had two written for me in similar circumstances.

To sum it up, your fears are unwarranted. You'll be getting an inexpensive, early start to college. And it is significantly easier for someone with a 3.5+ GPA from a CC to get into a 4-year university than someone with a 3.5 out of high school. But the same rules apply. You have to work hard, go above and beyond, and make every class count. Don't feel like if you don't go to an Ivy like Stanford you won't make it as a physicist. The average GPA to transfer into a school like that is typically a 3.8-4.0. I know CMU is a 3.8 as a reference. So if you do that good and still don't get in, just keep going. If you've made it through your intro courses in physics and Calculus with A's, that's better than the bulk of people who take those classes at ANY four years school.

Study hard, get A's, surround yourself with like minded people, stay close with the people you love who believe in you, and make sure Physics is REALLY what you want. Do that, and a 4 year college won't be hard to get into.

EDIT: If you have a particular school in mind to transfer to in your state, they probably have a pdf dedicated to how your CC's classes transfer into their school, and what they look for in applicants. Talk to transfer counselors at both your CC and the university you want to transfer to.

That was extremely helpful, thanks! I have narrowed down my preferences to three subjects, physics, mathematics, and philosophy. My father has been urging me to pursue philosophy because he was a philosophy professor but I feel as though physics is of superior relevance. Don't get me wrong, I do have a passion for philosophy (I've read about half the books in our home library) but I'm not sure how much monetary gain can be had by acquiring a PhD, let's say, in philosophy. Will a student absolutely sure about what it is he wants to pursue in academia be more attractive to universities? I've been studying for the aptitude test you mentioned but I'm not sure if I should strive to be placed in Calculus 2 or a less rigorous class. It's intuitive to think the former but I want a thorough education first and for most, not to breeze through mathematics as though it was not of practical use. And what would going above and beyond on HW look like? Should I create my own problems? Print out online worksheets? I'm willing to do whatever it takes to become a successful academic but I will be the first to admit this attitude towards school has not been in my nature until recently.

 

[Cake]

That was extremely helpful, thanks! I have narrowed down my preferences to three subjects, physics, mathematics, and philosophy. My father has been urging me to pursue philosophy because he was a philosophy professor but I feel as though physics is of superior relevance. Don't get me wrong, I do have a passion for philosophy (I've read about half the books in our home library) but I'm not sure how much monetary gain can be had by acquiring a PhD, let's say, in philosophy. Will a student absolutely sure about what it is he wants to pursue in academia be more attractive to universities? I've been studying for the aptitude test you mentioned but I'm not sure if I should strive to be placed in Calculus 2 or a less rigorous class. It's intuitive to think the former but I want a thorough education first and for most, not to breeze through mathematics as though it was not of practical use. And what would going above and beyond on HW look like? Should I create my own problems? Print out online worksheets? I'm willing to do whatever it takes to become a successful academic but I will be the first to admit this attitude towards school has not been in my nature until recently.

I've never met anyone who knew what they wanted to do their first semester, or even first half of their undergrad. The best thing you can do is take what interests you conceptually and see if when you get down to the grit that you really do like it. In physics, that would be higher level mathematics and complicated problems. If you can work your way through an intro physics and calculus classes you'll have a better idea of what you want.

I frown on ever telling someone what they should major in. So do most people on here. Ultimately you have to enjoy math, computer science and science to be a physicist. I don't know what one has to like to be a philosopher. Maybe while you're taking those intro courses in physics you could take an intro philosophy class as well as a writing class, since philosophy typically counts towards a general education requirement anyways.

Most places will require you to take at least Calculus 1 to start anyways unless you have AP credits in Calculus just fyi. The tests usually only test through basic trignometry.

 

[Catria]

This is not true in general. First, at most colleges and universities in the US, you apply for admission to the school as a whole, not to a specific major. On the application, they will probably ask you what you plan to major in, if you've already decided. This is mainly for informational purposes, and maybe for assigning you to a suitable academic advisor on the faculty. Many students put down "undecided" at this point.

Second, at most colleges and universities in the US, except maybe schools like MIT and Caltech, the physics major program does not require incoming freshmen to have already taken calculus or even physics in high school. A typical physics major program starts out with calculus and intro physics, by default. It obviously helps if you've taken those subjects in high school, because having seen the material already makes the introductory courses easier for you. If you've taken AP courses and do well on the AP exams, you might even get to skip the introductory courses, but not all schools let you do this.

There are schools where, while you may not apply for admission to neither the school nor the specific major but a college within the school (UIUC, Rutgers for example), and the college under whose jurisdiction the physics major is under may recommend, if not outright require, calculus. Perhaps you're interested in doing undergrad abroad, in which case you may as well take calculus and intro physics in CC. However, most of the time, foreign undergrad programs require you to apply to a specific major at the onset.

If you work the hell out of yourself in a community college and obtain mostly As, if not all As, then the sort of schools that would recommend, if not outright require calculus and intro physics for an incoming freshman majoring in physics would become realistic, albeit as reaches.

 

[CalcNerd]

The people who suggest the local CC are correct, it is a great way to prepare for an advanced degree. Your problem might be getting into the CC without getting a GED first (equivalent to HS diploma) although the CC might wave that requirement. I would avoid the Homeschooling option unless your parents are very well educated. It will make all of your learning hard and uphill. Sometime even trivial knowledge is Hard earned without knowledgeable guidance. Sadly the reverse is also true, I had a brilliant (so others said, and I would be inclined to agree) physics professor in college, but he SUCKED as an instructor. When I asked questions, he would state, "That's obvious, and I can't waste class time on that." Or that I should consult this text or that (often a class text I did not own, because I had not taken the referenced course).

I had Lab partner with only a sophomore High school education before he was admitted to the university for an EE program.

It will be harder for you until you finish your first year. Physics will require you to read a lot and do a lot of home work. I would suggest you do take as many science and chemistry classes that your local CC offers. You might also consider engineering classes as well.

Often High school students go to college to become scientists (sounds glamorous) and then discover engineering (pays better - on average) and go that route.

 

[arrowpusher96]

If anybody tells you it's too late, they're wrong. Very wrong. No, you won't go to MIT. That's fine. Barely scraping by at a "big-name" school is not nearly as good as getting good grades at a big, no-name state school. Not to mention, if you do well in community college(assuming your state has some "big-name" government schools) you can go to many prestigious universities(Here in Virginia you can attend UVA,VT and WM coming from community college.). From someone who has attended community college and university(actually 2 universities), there is no difference except the amount of individual attention. Difficulty varies much more professor-professor then it does school to school. If you want to prove it to yourself, go ahead and pick a few classes from a hat, Google their name followed by "MIT exam" or "Stanford Exam" etc and the same for your prospective school. You'll see, there's little difference.

People are obsessed with prestige, yet it has little to do with your success(Especially in the sciences.). I go to a giant university with very little prestige, but there's tons of active research, the professors really care about students and the quality of the education is great. I've compared my exams to MIT's exams for the same classes, and mine were harder! This is not a secret, if you get straight A's, you can do well, at any accredited university in the USA. For example, I know someone doing research with a professor from Berkeley who's been published in Nature(A really big scientific journal.) who goes to my school.

Frankly, it makes me very angry; I walk into our giant chemistry building with hundreds of millions in funding, >70 grad students, and dozens of research labs with professors puttering about, and I find it mighty hard to believe that some ivy league school which gives 2%(Hyperbole.) of it's money to sciences is somehow better than my 75% acceptance rate school.

 

[arrowpusher96]

My CC doesn't offer an Associates of Science in Physics program, however it does contain many courses that are necessary to obtain said degree thus allowing me to transfer to a university and earn an Associates there. I do believe they have an Associates of Mathematics in Calculus degree though, would that be worthwhile? This process is completely foreign to me so I appreciate you enlightening me.

As others have said, you don't need an associate's, but they are seen preferably. I've seen people waste a lot of time getting them, because they're advised to, but often times they take many unnecessary classes. I'd highly, highly recommend looking at the requirements for the degree you want, and if those don't match up to a program at the local CC, go ahead and just start checking those classes off the list until you exhaust what you can take at CC and apply for transfer. They'll accept you if you have good grades. It's what I did, and I transferred with 29 credits.