Dan Rather / CBS using forged Bush related National Guard documents?

[FaverWillets]

If each entity (CBS and SBV) acted on its own not in cahoots with either campaign, why should either campaign comment on either issue? Or are you suggesting in your last post that CBS is part of the Kerry campaign, so an apology by CBS should be considered an apology by Kerry and the Bush campaign should follow suit? Since I doubt you really mean to say that, the comparison is specious.

In any case, the Iraq info is a separate issue entirely.

It was DubYa, by this unintelligible response that triggered mine: "One side has pay for their messages on their own. The other side gets Dan Rather and The Today Show to air theirs" He made this distinction, not me.

How by any stretch of the imagination did you make such a leap, Russ?

How can the comparison be specious when it has been proven that Bush/Powell presented forged documents to the UN in support of pre emptive war with Iraq. More than a thousand of our military have now died over this center piece of lies and deceit. Rather came clean even though witnesses confirm the inform within them is correct. I am amazed at how inflexible you guys are when presented with the truth about your chosen candidate.

 

[russ_watters]

It was DubYa, by this unintelligible response that triggered mine: "One side has pay for their messages on their own. The other side gets Dan Rather and The Today Show to air theirs" He made this distinction, not me.

Fair enough, though I thought JD's point was pretty clear. What part did you not understand?

In any case, I consider the media biased and unafraid to show it, but I would never say they are actually part of the Kerry campaign (nor, would I expect, JD would). Would you?

How by any stretch of the imagination did you make such a leap, Russ?

Well, you said:

It is a point of irony among many in this campaign that Dan Rather apologizes for documents that are in question...

...Incredibly one sided, this campaign.

which implies that they are a part of the campaign (for Kerry) and that CBS coming clean is equivalent to the Kerry campaign coming clean. Obviously, the SBV are part of the campaign - are you implying that CBS is as well?

How can the comparison be specious when it has been proven that Bush/Powell presented forged documents to the UN in support of pre emptive war with Iraq...

I said the Iraq issue is irrelevant, its the other part that's in question: CBS vs the SBV - the the speciousness of the comparison you made depends on if you think CBS is part of the Kerry campaign. If you think CBS is a part of the Kerry campaign, then we have other issues here...

 

[FaverWillets]

Fair enough, though I thought JD's point was pretty clear. What part did you not understand?

In any case, I consider the media biased and unafraid to show it, but I would never say they are actually part of the Kerry campaign (nor, would I expect, JD would). Would you? Well, you said: which implies that they are a part of the campaign (for Kerry) and that CBS coming clean is equivalent to the Kerry campaign coming clean. Obviously, the SBV are part of the campaign - are you implying that CBS is as well? I said the Iraq issue is irrelevant, its the other part that's in question: CBS vs the SBV - the the speciousness of the comparison you made depends on if you think CBS is part of the Kerry campaign. If you think CBS is a part of the Kerry campaign, then we have other issues here...

DubYa made the implication that the Kerry camp got Rather and Today Show to do his dirty work. How did this get so messed up. I answered that we should assume that neither Bush nor Kerry had anything to do with either issue. On that assumption we should then look at what went down: Rather apologized. SBV has never come clean about their lies and deceit. Fair enough. I have to get to work... this is informative and entertaining to an extent, but I have to earn the bread now. Thank you both for your time and inputs, even if we clearly disagree.

 

[JohnDubYa]

So, we have degrees of right and wrong then? Then you suggest that accountability is entirely a matter of political expediency?

You were talking about a perfect world. In a perfect world, the three major news networks wouldn't be siding with one side of the political debate. So while Kitty Kelly gets free exposure on The Today Show and Dan Rather presents forged documents, the Swift Boat Veterans have to pay to have their messages delivered.

If Kitty Kelly, given her past idiocies, had written the book on John Kerry, she would never have landed on The Today Show -- she would have had to buy air time out of her own pocket. So you are right; we don't live in a perfect world.

 

[russ_watters]

DubYa made the implication that the Kerry camp got Rather and Today Show to do his dirty work.

No, I don't think JD implied that. The mainstream media is left leaning - Kerry didn't have to get them to do anything. They do it on their own.

I answered that we should assume that neither Bush nor Kerry had anything to do with either issue.

Ok, good...

On that assumption we should then look at what went down: Rather apologized. SBV has never come clean about their lies and deceit.

Ok, but that still assumes an equality between CBS and the SBV that doesn't (and shouldn't) exist. Media is supposed to be unbiased. You should assume that the SBV is biased.

IMO, the SBV didn't lie, but I'll certainly agree they were deceitful. But that's marketing. That's what you get from a biased marketing campaign with an adjenda. And there is a parallel on the Left: MoveOn.org and Michael Moore. Neither will ever come clean about their deceptions - and you shouldn't expect them to.

The fact that you don't seem to want to separate a supposedly unbiased observer from one that is obviously a biased and active part of the campaign is disturbing to me.

 

[JohnDubYa]

I think the Left's howling about the SBV campaign is hilarious, given their defending of Michael Moore. Freedom of speech, right?

 

[Tigers2B1]

Burkett has already indicated he was "the source" of these documents to CBS BUT claims that he received them from another source where, he claims, he made a promise of confidentiality. Smell a rat? – just wait to you read what else is involved here. No comment needed. Just read.

CBS arranged for a confidential source to talk with Joe Lockhart, a top aide to Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry, after the source provided the network with the now-disputed documents about President Bush's service in the Texas National Guard….

…Lockhart, the former press secretary to President Clinton, said a female producer talked to him about the 60 Minutes program a few days before it aired on Sept. 8. She gave Lockhart a telephone number and asked him to call Bill Burkett, a former Texas National Guard officer who gave CBS the documents. Lockhart couldn't recall the producer's name. But CBS said Monday night that it would examine the role of producer Mary Mapes in passing the name to Lockhart.

Burkett told USA TODAY that he had agreed to turn over the documents to CBS if the network would help arrange a conversation with the Kerry campaign.

The network's effort to place Burkett in contact with a top Democratic official raises ethical questions about CBS' handling of material potentially damaging to the Republican president in the midst of an election….

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-09-20-cbs-documents_x.htm

 

[russ_watters]

The mainstream media is left leaning - Kerry didn't have to get them to do anything. They do it on their own.

Looks like I may have to take this one back. If there is collusion, that's real bad for Kerry and CBS. More tomorrow...

I think the Left's howling about the SBV campaign is hilarious, given their defending of Michael Moore. Freedom of speech, right?

And don't forget Limbaugh. He's so offensive that they complain about him on the House floor. But MoveOn.org and Moore are just unbiased, astute observers and reporters (like CBS ). Heck, they even keep a straight face when saying that "F 9/11" is a "documentary." Riiiiight.

 

[Tigers2B1]

According to the DRUDGE REPORT, the Bush people what the CBS moderator off the debate. We’ll see how CBS and the moderating team respond to this.

http://www.drudgereport.com/cbsd5.htm

 

[JohnDubYa]

I doubt the CBS man will be removed. Instead, he will be the biggest pussycat among the moderators, just as the Bush people intended all along.