F is integrable if and only if its positive and negative parts are

In summary, the conversation discusses the integrability of a measurable function, defined in "Foundations of Modern Analysis" by Avner Friedman. The main question is whether a function is integrable if and only if its positive and negative parts are also integrable, or if its absolute value is integrable. The conversation also discusses the definition of "integrable" and the concept of a sequence of integrable simple functions that is Cauchy in the mean. The solution to the problem involves proving that if a sequence of integrable simple functions converges almost everywhere to a function, then its positive and negative parts also converge almost everywhere to the positive and negative parts of that function.
  • #1
Fredrik
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
10,877
422

Homework Statement



Problem 2.6.3. in "Foundations of modern analysis", by Avner Friedman. Let f be a measurable function. Prove that f is integrable if and only if f+ and f- are integrable, or if and only if |f| is integrable.

Homework Equations



Friedman defines "integrable" like this: An a.e. real-valued measurable function ##f:X\to\overline{\mathbb R}## is said to be integrable if there's a sequence ##\langle f_n\rangle## of integrable simple functions that's Cauchy in the mean and such that ##f_n\to f## a.e.

"Cauchy in the mean" means that it's a Cauchy sequence with respect to the L1 norm (which hasn't been defined at this point). In other words, ##\langle f_n\rangle## is Cauchy in the mean if for all ##\varepsilon>0## there's an ##N\in\mathbb Z^+## such that for all ##n,m\in\mathbb Z^+##,
$$\newcommand{\dmu}{\ \mathrm{d}\mu}
n,m\geq N\ \Rightarrow\ \int|f_n-f_m|\dmu<\varepsilon.$$

The Attempt at a Solution



I haven't looked at the "Cauchyness" yet. I'm still just focusing on the part about convergence a.e. If ##f^+, f^-## are integrable, it's easy to show that f is, because there are sequences ##\langle (f^\pm)_n\rangle## that converge a.e. to ##f^\pm##, and we just need to find another sequence ##\langle f_n\rangle## that converges a.e. to f. All we have to do is to define ##f_n=(f^+)_n-(f^-)_n##, and the result ##f_n\to f## a.e. follows from
$$|f_n-f|=|(f^+)_n-(f^-)_n-f^+-f^-|\leq|(f^+)_n-f^+|+|(f^-)_n-f^-|.$$ The proof that |f| is integrable is very similar. It's the converses of these results that I'm struggling with. In particular, how do I prove that if f is integrable, then its positive and negative parts are integrable too?

It actually looks impossible to me. At least if I start with the "obvious" idea. Let ##\langle f_n\rangle## be a sequence of integrable simple functions that's Cauchy in the mean and such that ##f_n\to f## a.e. Then break each ##f_n## into positive and negative parts, and define the sequences ##\langle (f^\pm)_n\rangle## by ##(f^\pm)_n=(f_n)^\pm##. (I'll just write ##f^\pm_n## from now on).

Consider an x such that f(x)=0. We have ##f^\pm(x)=0##, but I don't see a reason why we can't have something like ##f^\pm_n\to\pm 1##.

On the other hand, if I assume that both f and |f| are integrable (instead of just f), I can prove that f+ and f- are integrable with a simple triangle inequality argument. :confused:
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
So your problem is: If [itex]f_n\rightarrow f[/itex] a.e. with [itex]f_n[/itex] simple, then also [itex]f_n^+\rightarrow f^+[/itex] a.e.

This is what you want to prove right??

But [itex]f^+=f\vee 0[/itex]. So what you actually need to prove is that if [itex]x_n\rightarrow x[/itex], then [itex]x_n\vee 0\rightarrow x\vee 0[/itex]. That doesn't sound too complicated to prove.

Am I missing something?
 
  • #3
Yes, that's what I want to prove, and no I don't think you missed anything. I kept getting confused by inequalities like
$$|f^+_n(x)-f^+(x)|\leq |f_n(x)-f(x)|+|f^-_n(x)-f^-(x)|.$$ I see now that when x is such that f(x)>0, I can make the second term =0, not just <ε, by choosing ε<f(x) and N such that n≥N implies ##|f_n(x)-f(x)|<\varepsilon##. So it looks like what I missed is that I have to choose ε small enough. Thanks for helping me figure that out.
 

1. What does it mean for a function to be integrable?

Integrable refers to a mathematical concept where a function can be represented as the area under a curve. In other words, it is possible to find the definite integral of the function.

2. How can I determine if a function is integrable?

A function is considered integrable if its integral exists, meaning it can be evaluated using integration techniques. This can be determined by checking if the function satisfies certain criteria, such as being continuous on a closed interval.

3. What are the positive and negative parts of a function?

The positive and negative parts of a function refer to the portions of the function that lie above and below the x-axis, respectively. In other words, the positive part is the portion of the function with positive y-values, while the negative part has negative y-values.

4. How is the integrability of a function related to its positive and negative parts?

A function is considered integrable if and only if its positive and negative parts are integrable. This means that both parts must have a definite integral in order for the function as a whole to be integrable.

5. Can a function be integrable if either its positive or negative part is not integrable?

No, a function must have both its positive and negative parts be integrable in order for it to be considered integrable as a whole. If one part is not integrable, then the definite integral of the function cannot be evaluated.

Similar threads

  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
4
Views
318
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
15
Views
1K
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
13
Views
967
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
7
Views
1K
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
3
Views
574
Replies
0
Views
319
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
2
Views
845
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
1
Views
1K
Back
Top