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haushofer submitted a new PF Insights post
General Relativity as a Gauge Theory
Continue reading the Original PF Insights Post.
General Relativity as a Gauge Theory
Continue reading the Original PF Insights Post.
Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you mean by R(P)=0? I thought you meant by it a constraint that only applies in vacuum i.e. where Rab=0.haushofer said:I think I don't really understand your statement " the curvature constraint only applies to certain isolated central objects situations"
Ok, that was my initial undestanding, because only with the R(P) i.e. the torsion set to zero one recovers the Riemannian Bianchi identities, but in vacuum only. Then you can couple matter with spin but you are again back to the non-Riemannian connection and tensors, right?haushofer said:Ah, I see. Yes, I haven't stressed it too much, but the idea is that the gauging procedure gives the vacuum equations. As far as I can see those are exactly equivalent to the vacuum equations of GR. After that you can couple matter to your theory.
Oh, sure. Sorry if that part was confused in my post, certainly getting rid of the torsion and of the local translations is in this case equivalent. The Einstein-Cartan theory is what you get before setting R(P) to 0.It's been a while since I've read that Kibble paper, but I don't see how one can keep torsion while removing the local translations: the R(P) curvature is the torsion. So R(P)=0 puts the torsion to zero, and the Bianchi identities then give you the corresponding symmetries on the Riemann tensor.
I'll take a look, thanks.I wrote this Insight after having a discussion with Urs here,
https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/11d-gravity-just-torsion-constraint/
Maybe you find that interesting too :)
If you mean with "non- Riemannian" "torsionfull", then not necessarily. As fas as I know, spin-1 does not introduce torsion. Fermions can introduce torsion, and one example of this can be seen by the gauging of the N=1 super-Poincaré algebra. This gives you the gravitino gauge field psi, and the $$\{Q,Q\}=P$$ adds an extra term in the (now super!)covariant P-curvature, which schematically becomesRockyMarciano said:Ok, that was my initial undestanding, because only with the R(P) i.e. the torsion set to zero one recovers the Riemannian Bianchi identities, but in vacuum only. Then you can couple matter with spin but you are again back to the non-Riemannian connection and tensors, right?
haushofer said:I'm not sure to which extent the generality is of the statement "fermions add torsion".
Yes, thanks, this is basically the gravitational gauge anomaly for even dimensional spacetimes in the field theoretic context.haushofer said:The way I understand the procedure, is that the gauging procedure gives you GR with vacuum equations only. This is because the only gauge fields are the dependent spin connection and the vielbein (metric). After that you couple the theory to matter, but these matter fields in general will not be gauge fields anymore of an extension of the Poincaré algebra. An exception to this is the N=1 super-Poincaré theory in D=4, in which you introduce a gravitino; this field can be treated like the gauge field of the supertransformations. So after coupling of the matter, the spin connection will be given by the first order formalism and for fermions will obtain extra terms compared to the gauging.
Spin-1/2 fields cannot be considered as gauge fields of some 'extra generators' of the Poincaré algebra afaik (they don't even carry a vector index). So they introduce torsion because of the first order formalism (they couple to the spin connection), not because they appear in the curvature of local translations.
As such the gauging procedure for me is a way of obtaining the vacuum equations, but as soon as one wants to couple matter, the result in general will not be obtainable by a gauging procedure directly. If this would be the case, constructing supergravity theories would be much easier! So if I couple fermions to GR, I don't consider the underlying algebra anymore, but use the first order formalism to derive the spin connection.Hope this clarifies your question.
I was not implying otherwise just pointing to the similarity of concept with the gravitational anomaly specifically in the 4-spacetime and even though what you explained about Poincare gauge theory of gravity is not limited to a certain dimensionality, it makes little sense to apply it for instance to the 2+1 GR that in vacuum is trivially flat(no weyl curvature so it's pretty worthless physically.haushofer said:Mmmm, I have to think about that, since this point arises in all dimensions.
vanhees71 said:There are many more vacuum solutions of Einstein's field equations than just the Schwarzschild solution, e.g., the Friedmann-Lemaitre-Robertson-Walker solution that is utmost important for cosmology. These solutions have no black-hole singularities but rather a big bang/crunch singularity. Of course another solution is Minkowski spacetime which has no sinularities at all.
In general relativity, gauge theory refers to the mathematical framework used to describe the fundamental interactions between matter and space-time. It is based on the idea that the properties of space-time, such as curvature and geometry, can be described by a set of mathematical quantities known as gauge fields.
General relativity explains the force of gravity as a result of the curvature of space-time. According to this theory, objects with mass cause a distortion in the fabric of space-time, which we experience as the force of gravity. This is in contrast to Newton's theory of gravity, which describes gravity as a force between massive objects.
The significance of general relativity as a gauge theory is that it provides a unified framework for understanding the fundamental interactions in the universe. It allows us to describe both the macroscopic behavior of objects, such as planets and galaxies, as well as the microscopic behavior of particles, such as atoms and subatomic particles.
General relativity differs from other theories of gravity, such as Newton's theory, in that it takes into account the curvature of space-time. This allows it to explain phenomena that cannot be explained by other theories, such as the bending of light near massive objects and the existence of black holes.
General relativity has numerous practical applications, including the accurate prediction of the orbits of planets and satellites, the use of GPS technology, and the development of gravitational wave detectors. It also plays a crucial role in our understanding of the structure and evolution of the universe.