Gravity Emergent: Matter or Big Bang?

In summary, the conversation discusses the role of gravity in the formation of black holes and its connection to matter and the big bang. There is a debate about whether gravity was always present or if it emerged from other fundamental forces. It is also mentioned that gravity can interact with energy, momentum, pressure, and twisting forces, and that photons can have mass in the form of energy. The conversation ends with a deletion of a thread hijack.
  • #1
wolram
Gold Member
Dearly Missed
4,446
558
To my way of thinking gravity must have been there at a very early stage for black holes to form, The thing is I can not find a definitive answer to my question.
If gravity is a distortion of space time then matter must have come first, or were the distortions of space time a relic from the big bang?
 
Space news on Phys.org
  • #2
wolram said:
To my way of thinking gravity must have been there at a very early stage for black holes to form, The thing is I can not find a definitive answer to my question.
If gravity is a distortion of space time then matter must have come first, or were the distortions of space time a relic from the big bang?
Gravity is a law of physics. It was always been there.

You are asking I guess without matter how gravity works ?
 
Last edited:
  • #3
Arman777 said:
Gravity is a law of physics. It was always been there.

You are asking I guess without matter how gravity will works ?
It's not a testable question, unless there are immaterial beings like ghosts.

And that's metaphysics.
 
  • #4
I would say that gravity won't work without matter, it's intrinsic property of matter, specifically mass.
 
  • #5
What a mess! This whole thread is in Humpty-Dumpty land!

That's not what "emergent" means. Emergent means that gravity is the result of some other physics. For example, in the now-discredited LeSage theory, gravity would be emergent.
 
  • #6
wolram said:
To my way of thinking gravity must have been there at a very early stage for black holes to form, The thing is I can not find a definitive answer to my question.
If gravity is a distortion of space time then matter must have come first, or were the distortions of space time a relic from the big bang?
To add a bit to what Vanadium 50 said, gravity being "emergent" doesn't mean it wasn't always there. The terminology is used to describe theories where there's something fundamental going on that looks very different from curved space-time at a microscopic level, but that behavior ends up approximating curved space-time at a macroscopic level.

For example, imagine if space-time was divided into discrete points in time and space, and particles could only exist at individual points, but the presence of energy or momentum actually changes the number of points that are available, and the specific way that matter interacts with the number of points behaves like curved space-time.

The above idea is probably impossible (at least in its simplest formulation: an irregular grid of points implies that momentum wouldn't be conserved). But I think it illustrates the concept of emergent gravity well enough.
 
  • #7
Thank you for your replies.
 
  • #8
MathematicalPhysicist said:
I would say that gravity won't work without matter, it's intrinsic property of matter, specifically mass.
More properly, gravity won't work without mass. But the mass can be in the form of photons. No ghosts, but it need not be matter.
 
  • #9
JMz said:
More properly, gravity won't work without mass. But the mass can be in the form of photons. No ghosts, but it need not be matter.
Photons don't have mass.

Gravity interacts with energy, momentum, pressure, and twisting forces. For normal matter outside of exotic situations like neutron stars, the mass energy is so much greater than the other components that it dominates all of those other components.

Photons, by contrast, have as much energy as they have momentum (or pressure, in the situation of a photon gas).
 
  • #10
kimbyd said:
Photons don't have mass.
A photon has no mass. A collection of photons can have non-zero mass.

[Not that this is very relevant. Gravity (curved space-time) arises from the stress-energy tensor, not merely mass]
 
  • #11
Thread closed for moderation.

Edit: a very large thread hijack has been deleted and the thread will remain closed
 
Last edited by a moderator:

1. What is the main theory behind Gravity Emergent: Matter or Big Bang?

The main theory behind Gravity Emergent is that gravity is not a fundamental force, but rather an emergent phenomenon that arises from the interactions between matter and space-time. This theory challenges the traditional view that gravity is a force that is inherent to matter and instead suggests that it is a product of the structure of space-time itself.

2. How does this theory differ from the traditional understanding of gravity?

The traditional understanding of gravity is based on Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation, which states that every object in the universe attracts every other object with a force that is directly proportional to their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them. In contrast, the theory of Gravity Emergent suggests that gravity is not a force between objects, but rather a result of the curvature of space-time caused by the presence of matter.

3. What evidence supports the theory of Gravity Emergent?

One of the main pieces of evidence for Gravity Emergent is the observation of gravitational lensing, which occurs when the path of light is bent by the gravitational field of a massive object. This phenomenon is predicted by Einstein's theory of general relativity, which is based on the idea of gravity as a curvature of space-time. Additionally, studies of the cosmic microwave background radiation have also provided evidence for the concept of an expanding universe, supporting the idea of a Big Bang origin for our universe.

4. Can the theory of Gravity Emergent be tested?

Yes, the theory of Gravity Emergent can be tested through various experiments and observations. For example, scientists can study the effects of gravity on different objects in space, such as planets and stars, to further understand the relationship between matter and space-time. Additionally, scientists can also use advanced technologies, such as gravitational wave detectors, to detect and study the ripples in space-time caused by massive objects.

5. How does the theory of Gravity Emergent impact our understanding of the universe?

The theory of Gravity Emergent challenges our traditional understanding of the universe and opens up new avenues for research and exploration. It suggests that gravity is not a static force, but rather a dynamic and evolving phenomenon that is intertwined with the structure of space-time. This theory also has implications for the study of dark matter and dark energy, as well as the origin and evolution of our universe.

Similar threads

I Shouldn't the Big bang be physically impossible?
    • Cosmology
Replies
25
Views
2K
B Is Gravity Emergent? Answers to Pre-Big Bang Questions
    • Cosmology
Replies
3
Views
1K
I Questions about the Location of the Big Bang and the Age of the Universe
    • Cosmology
Replies
8
Views
541
I Big bang at the edges of the Universe?
    • Cosmology
Replies
25
Views
1K
B Big Bang Question -- How was the first matter formed?
    • Cosmology
2
Replies
69
Views
4K
I Schwartzchild radius and the Big Bang
    • Cosmology
Replies
13
Views
2K
I Did James Webb cast serious doubt on the Big Bang?
    • Cosmology
Replies
15
Views
1K
I Why didn't the Big Bang form a Black Hole?
    • Cosmology
Replies
7
Views
904
I How does BBT resolve away from "It should be a black hole"
    • Cosmology
Replies
2
Views
946
I Is the Big Bang a White Hole? Exploring Possibilities
    • Cosmology
Replies
22
Views
3K

Hot Threads

Recent Insights

Back
Top