Is There a Double Standard in Dating Expectations for Men and Women?

[Jordan Joab]

Men

- Take her out to dinner.
- Make her feel special.
- Get job/house/car/career/etc.
- Write poems.
- Write/sing/play songs and instruments.
- get special skills.
- Stand out from the crowd.
- Financial security.
- And countless other things men have to do to "mate."

In the end, sex not guaranteed.

Women

"I'm in the mood tonight."

Sex guaranteed.


Why doesn't this happen to me?

http://www.geocities.com/area51/shadowlands/6583/et051.html

 

[Cyrus]

Man, I hope you don't really do what you have on that list for men.

 

[Moonbear]

Man, I hope you don't really do what you have on that list for men.

What's wrong with that list? My boyfriend does everything on that list for me, except play an instrument (well, it's not all for me...some he'd do anyway, like the financial security part). His poems are pretty bad too, but they make me laugh, so I still enjoy it. It's all appreciated. I do the same in return for him (minus instruments and bad poems). It's the list for women that's a bit pathetic.

 

[rootX]

What's wrong with that list? My boyfriend does everything on that list for me, except play an instrument (well, it's not all for me...some he'd do anyway, like the financial security part). His poems are pretty bad too, but they make me laugh, so I still enjoy it. It's all appreciated. I do the same in return for him (minus instruments and bad poems). It's the list for women that's a bit pathetic.

It sounds BS : only happens in romantic movies ...

 

[lisab]

Men

- Take her out to dinner.
- Make her feel special.
- Get job/house/car/career/etc.
- Write poems.
- Write/sing/play songs and instruments.
- get special skills.
- Stand out from the crowd.
- Financial security.
- And countless other things men have to do to "mate."

In the end, sex not guaranteed.

Do you do all these things...but only to increase the chance that you'll have sex?

 

[hypatia]

My husband does most of the things on the list, but I do those things for him too.
Make him dinner, and breakfast and lunch
Make him feel special
Work, contribute to our income{40+ hrs a week}
Special skills, yea I can use a hammer drill, a ban saw and most tools.
Stand out in a crowd, and prepare food and entertainment for the crowd
Wash dishes, scrub toilets,clean floors, make beds, change the oil in the cars, take care of pets, make appointments, food shopping, house hold shopping, tend the garden, laundry, doctor wounds and administer medications ...

In the end, sex not guaranteed.

 

[wolram]

We should go back to the olden days when one could buy a wife, the only down side to that was if you did not get on she would have her kin folk carve you up for shark bait,
still that is a better fate than being nagged to death.

 

[turbo]

Lame thread! My wife and I complement each other very well without that lop-sided crap posed by the OP. I have a medical disability, so while I tend our vegetable garden, she is pulling in a paycheck and keeping us in medical insurance. In the meantime, I'm the one making pickles, preserves, salsas, etc and canning and freezing produce to keep us in food for the next year. I pick wild berries, fiddleheads, apples, etc, clean and process and freeze them, and we have two large chest freezers jam-packed with food for future use. Yep! Lame.

 

[Evo]

Hmmmm, the last guy I dated just said "my name is... google me". After 3 hours of reading about him, I was putty in his hands.

 

[Redbelly98]

That list pretty much jives with some advice 2 friends of mine gave me years ago. A man has to go to a lot of trouble to get a woman to like him, because he has to first convince her he's not some kind of weirdo or pervert.

After hearing that advice, relationships became a lot easier for me.

 

[rootX]

That list pretty much jives with some advice 2 friends of mine gave me years ago. A man has to go to a lot of trouble to get a woman to like him, because he has to first convince her he's not some kind of weirdo or pervert.

At one moment, women want to be equal to men and at other, they just want men to do everything for them ...

I would never do any of romantic thing, and wouldn't try to prove other things even if I am working hard to get them.

 

[Jordan Joab]

Man, I hope you don't really do what you have on that list for men.

I have done many of those things and more. I just realized how much garbage I have done and been through just for the sake of a relationship. Even worse, I came to the conclusion that marriage is a huge waste of time and energy, at least for me. And worst of all, when one is 25yrs old and haven't had sex in ages one becomes irrational and angry.

What really annoys me is that women know all this and many use it as a weapon. When can we replace them?


~J

 

[russ_watters]

Why doesn't this happen to me?

http://www.geocities.com/area51/shadowlands/6583/et051.html

So...if I tell her I'm an alien, she'll do me? Why didn't anyone tell me this before?!??!

 

[russ_watters]

Hmmmm, the last guy I dated just said "my name is... google me". After 3 hours of reading about him, I was putty in his hands.

My real name is George Bush. Google me.

 

[Cyrus]

What's wrong with that list? My boyfriend does everything on that list for me, except play an instrument (well, it's not all for me...some he'd do anyway, like the financial security part). His poems are pretty bad too, but they make me laugh, so I still enjoy it. It's all appreciated. I do the same in return for him (minus instruments and bad poems). It's the list for women that's a bit pathetic.

I'll rewrite the list with exactly what's wrong with it, item for item.

Men

- Take her out to dinner.

Yes that's fine, and she can pay for her own dinner. If this is implying to buy her dinner then the man is being used. I'm typing this after coming from a bar so its 4:05 am right now. I was talking to this blonde girl (EEEK BLONDE GIRL AHHHH!), and she was telling me about this other bar that has cheap drinks on a certain day. I interrupted her and said so what, your a girl. She said nooooooo, its not just for girls that night, its cheap drinks for everyone. I stopped her again and said, no that's not what I meant. You're a girl, you should never pay for drinks. You're supposed to go up to a guy standing at the bar, run your hand through your hair and say hi your cute. Then he'll offer to buy you a drink. After you get your drink you look behind him and say 'oh, there's my friends I got to run!' and walk away with your free drink. Well, she told me she was going to the bathroom. She came back 15 mins later and said, 'want a sip of my drink, its courtesy of the US army!' So not only did this poor sucker buy her a drink, she brought it back and is sharing it with me. Moral of the story, girls use guys to get free stuff all the time. Wise up and make her pay for her own meals, guys.

- Make her feel special.

Careful, don't confuse 'make her feel special' with obsessing over her. I have lots of girls tell me about boyfriends who are not confident and would want their attention 24-7. Know your limits.

- Get job/house/car/career/etc.

I tell every girl I meet at a bar that I drive a trash truck. Its none of their damn business how much money I make, how big my house is, or what kind of car I drive. If you need these things, you probably violated the first thing on this list by trying to buy her. This is a MAJOR NO NO.

- Write poems.

Roses are read, violets are blue. This is really lame, and so are you. If your going to do this, I hope you really know a lot about poetry to make something that's actually nice. Or just copy something down that you read that was nice. But its very high-schoolish, in my opinon. If your good at poetry then by all means write away! I wouldn't try it because my poem would end up being an equation that I thought was nice...and she'd be like ...are you serious?...

- Write/sing/play songs and instruments.

Uh, no. Absolutely not.

- get special skills.

I got skillz to pay da billz, Holla backkkkkkk yalll. Again, no.

- Stand out from the crowd.

Well, I would not write it that way. I would instead say, be interesting. No one wants to hang around boring people. (Well, maybe some people do...that's kinda sad and pathetic) Most guys talk about lame stuff girls don't want to hear. Bla bla bla sports, bla bla bla cars, bla bla bla my buddies did x,y,z. Or if its at a bar, "hi, what's your name...so what do you do...im really boring and I won't go away and I'll sit here and ask you lame questions all night long. Hey where are you going? I'll just wait here incase you get back ..." Ouch, have some personality.

- Financial security.

No, I am not a sugar daddy.

- And countless other things men have to do to "mate."

Actually, less is more. Just grab her tushy and give it a firm squeeze so she jumps, -she'll love it I promise. (But please, don't just walk up to a girl and do this. Thats called sexual assult).

In the end, sex not guaranteed.

It should be if you play your cards right. But then again, I don't even like kissing a girl I don't know or just met, unless she's really really really hot. I don't know where her mouth has been. But if were talking a relationship, you should be able to keep her happy by showing her effection in ways that DOES NOT require spending money. Spend time with her, spend time getting to know her and listening to what she has to say. Do activities with her that she enjoys that are new to you so its something different for you at the same time. Thats the fun of meeting people, sharing new experiences you probably would not have known or thought of on your daily routine. That's the variety that makes life interesting.

Chomp chomp chomp, how's your food? Chomp chomp chomp....it's all right. Chomp chomp chomp (thinking, I hope this is going well!) ...chomp chomp. Here's the bill sir, $69.00! Chomp chomp...gulp...ahhhh dammit.

I think I'll pass on that dinner...

I would change the list for women to the following though:

Women

Have something interesting about yourself. A hobby, a passion, anything. Art, science, literally. Just like SOMETHING so you don't look to a realtionship as a means to passing your boredom. A lot of people look for relationships as simply something to do, both men and women.

Take care of your body. Exercise, eat well, get enough sleep. Dont smoke or do drugs. Look your best and have a positive outlook on life in the things you do (This list is also for men).

Thats enough for now, I am sure I'll get 10x pages of people arguing with me now...

 

[Jordan Joab]

Speaking on behalf of just myself, as a married man I honestly don't care what a woman brings to the table as long as there's good sex involved. I'm 25. I've been married for 5 years (we've been together for a little over 10yrs). I've been through all the motions of cuddling, arguing, spending time together, and all that garbage couples do. I'm tired of it. I don't care if my wife cooks, cleans, does laundry, or whatever for me since I can do all that myself. At this point in my life I want the sex, nothing more.

Even married, I got to jump through hoops just to make her happy like the time I had to take a bus at 2am to go 5miles away to get her some food she wanted. I'll admit I did that out of love but now that I think about it, it wasn't worth it.

I will never ever again spend money or time on any woman. I'm jaded. I'm so jaded, my standards have been lowered significantly. I'll go out with anything. I've played my cards correctly many times, I know this, but I still end up crashing and burning because men and women play different games with the same cards.

What the hell happened to the myth of "married men get it easily!"


~J

 

[Chi Meson]

My real name is George Bush. Google me.

Not so good at back rubs, evidently.

"Achtung! Was ist das? Raus! Raus!"

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

Don't anybody show that list to my wife or I'm a dead man.

 

[Fearless]

LOL. This thread is such a blast. I don't really know where to begin, but Cyrus is on to something.

If women want equal treatment, they shouldn't play on the stereotypes and whatnot. They should pay for their own meals, drinks, things etc. Occasional presents is great stuff, but they should only get them on anniversaries and birthdays.

Then another thing is, it depends on what kind of girls you like and are hitting on. If you find out everything about the "subculture" of those girls you can corner the market if you also are rather fit and talkative. A sense of style and class is never a bad thing in this kind of activity.

And for a final word, will sleeping with 5 more random chicks give you anything? Maybe a "morale" and confidence boost. But those things are hollow. Search for inner strength instead of getting your confidence from someone else. The only other thing that is a perk is sexual experience, so when you meet the woman of yours dreams, you will make her very VERY satisfied whenever you please. :)

 

[Moonbear]

We should go back to the olden days when one could buy a wife, the only down side to that was if you did not get on she would have her kin folk carve you up for shark bait,
still that is a better fate than being nagged to death.

At one moment, women want to be equal to men and at other, they just want men to do everything for them ...

Did you read hypatia's and my replies here? None of that indicated having men do everything for us. In fact, if my boyfriend tried to do everything for me, he'd probably find the imprint of the bottom of my shoe on delicate parts of his anatomy. That doesn't mean that people can't do nice things for each other.

Of course, as others pointed out, if you're ONLY doing it to get sex, and not as part of a give-and-take relationship, then yeah, you get what you deserve, which is likely no sex. (I think that may be the way Cyrus is interpreting the list, as coming from the perspective of someone chasing after a date, not in the context of an existing relationship...I didn't make that assumption.) When just going out on first dates (or any of the first few dates), sure, I don't think it's right for men to pay for everything, and I don't let them. But, with a boyfriend, it's not at all the same situation. He can treat me to dinner if he wants, because he also doesn't object when I treat him. He has noticed that when I take him out to dinner, the waitperson inevitably hands him the check though. I've finally trained him to hand it over without a fuss when I've told him I'm treating (yeah, he always tried to pay for everything...I had to break him of that habit).

 

[WarPhalange]

I'll rewrite the list with exactly what's wrong with it, item for item.

I get that you mean "just to get someone in the sack", but you have to admit that all those things are good to have in general anyway.

 

[Cyrus]

Speaking on behalf of just myself, as a married man I honestly don't care what a woman brings to the table as long as there's good sex involved. I'm 25. I've been married for 5 years (we've been together for a little over 10yrs). I've been through all the motions of cuddling, arguing, spending time together, and all that garbage couples do. I'm tired of it. I don't care if my wife cooks, cleans, does laundry, or whatever for me since I can do all that myself. At this point in my life I want the sex, nothing more.

Well, I wouldn't want cooking, cleaning, laundry or other house stuff from a wife. Thats really not the point of having a wife, agreed? As for sex, you can get sex from women. She doesn't have to be your wife to have sex. If all you care about your wife is to have sex with her, I'd get a divorce before you get her pregnant.

Even married, I got to jump through hoops just to make her happy like the time I had to take a bus at 2am to go 5miles away to get her some food she wanted. I'll admit I did that out of love but now that I think about it, it wasn't worth it.

You said you just want sex, but based on this I think she's the one screwing you. You're getting used, wow...your jumping through hoops of fire.

I will never ever again spend money or time on any woman. I'm jaded. I'm so jaded, my standards have been lowered significantly. I'll go out with anything. I've played my cards correctly many times, I know this, but I still end up crashing and burning because men and women play different games with the same cards.

If you played them correctly, you wouldn't crash and burn many times.

 

[Cyrus]

I get that you mean "just to get someone in the sack", but you have to admit that all those things are good to have in general anyway.

No, I don't mean that. Sure, some of them are good to have. But you don't go around advertising them. Things like driving a nice car, being financially secure, etc. are things I do for myself and none of a womans business.

As far as she knows I am a broke trash truck driving guy.

 

[Math Is Hard]

As far as she knows I am a broke trash truck driving guy.

You should tell them you work for your father, who has a small junk/salvage business.

 

[Cyrus]

You should tell them you work for your father, who has a small junk/salvage business.

JUNK? This isn't JUNK! Oh no, I need to sit down its the big one! <grabs chest>

 

[Math Is Hard]

JUNK? This isn't JUNK! Oh no, I need to sit down its the big one! <grabs chest>

 

[Evo]

Speaking on behalf of just myself, as a married man I honestly don't care what a woman brings to the table as long as there's good sex involved. I'm 25. I've been married for 5 years (we've been together for a little over 10yrs). I've been through all the motions of cuddling, arguing, spending time together, and all that garbage couples do. I'm tired of it. I don't care if my wife cooks, cleans, does laundry, or whatever for me since I can do all that myself. At this point in my life I want the sex, nothing more.

Even married, I got to jump through hoops just to make her happy like the time I had to take a bus at 2am to go 5miles away to get her some food she wanted. I'll admit I did that out of love but now that I think about it, it wasn't worth it.

I will never ever again spend money or time on any woman. I'm jaded. I'm so jaded, my standards have been lowered significantly. I'll go out with anything. I've played my cards correctly many times, I know this, but I still end up crashing and burning because men and women play different games with the same cards.

What the hell happened to the myth of "married men get it easily!"


~J

Sounds like you have a rotten marriage. Have you considered a divorce and getting out of this unhealthy relationship?

 

[Dale]

I'm 25. I've been married for 5 years (we've been together for a little over 10yrs).

Well, there's the problem right there. Assuming that she is about the same age as you then neither of you went through the normal process of growing up. You have never taken the time to figure out who you are so it isn't surprising that you didn't know what kind of woman you wanted.

 

[Evo]

Well, there's the problem right there. Assuming that she is about the same age as you then neither of you went through the normal process of growing up. You have never taken the time to figure out who you are so it isn't surprising that you didn't know what kind of woman you wanted.

Good point Dale. Another issue is that a child of 15 is just starting to discover themselves and as they mature, their interests grow and change, their personality "changes/matures". It seems more likely that two people will mature at different rates and their interests will start to change, more often in different directions. The difference in someone at age 15 and age 25 is a lot more noticeable than someone at age 35 and age 45.

There is just a greater risk that two people that meet that young will grow apart due to changes in what they want and like.

 

[NeoDevin]

What ever happened to just being yourself, and finding someone who likes you for that, rather than trying to be what someone wants?

 

[moose]

- And countless other things men have to do to "mate."

Or you can find someone who isn't using you and actually wants you?

 

[turbo]

The inequalities in one's relationship with a significant other reflect what the partners want and/or are willing to put up with. Any relationship that is so poorly balanced in the give-and-take would not have survived what my wife and I went through early on, including chasing construction jobs all over the region, my working brutal hours (whenever overtime was offered) to try to save enough to build a down-payment on a house someday, the time when the wood-products mill that we both worked at was shut down and were were both unemployed at the same time, the very early losses of her father and my mother, etc.

When I was awarded the lead-operator's job on the world's first on-line sized, coated, and hot-roll-calendered high-speed paper machine, I knew what I was in for. Almost 4 months of 12+ hour days, every single day, without a day off. Most of the guys on that machine had never worked so much overtime or made that much money any time in their lives, and many of their wives spent every nickel they could get their hands on, started running around, and ended up divorcing the guys. The ones with children got to keep the house and the better vehicle, and when the judges looked at the money these guys were making (working 85-90 hours a week, generally), they usually slapped them with the most brutal child-support payments one could image - payments that would be impossible to meet once the paper machine start-up phase was over and we transitioned to 48-60 hours a week. Not only that, the fact that these guys worked rotating shifts guaranteed that they could not get custody of their kids, only visitation rights. Talk about misery! I never doubted that my wife and I would get through that period with our relationship intact, not just because we had experienced worse before, but because we we always rolled with the punches and the bad times drove us closer.

Is a relationship about what X will do to get financial security or Y will do to get sex or what Z will do to have a hot-looking mate (kind of like a living fashion accessory)? Sorry, that is a blueprint for a failed relationship.

 

[rootX]

Did you read hypatia's and my replies here? None of that indicated having men do everything for us. In fact, if my boyfriend tried to do everything for me, he'd probably find the imprint of the bottom of my shoe on delicate parts of his anatomy. That doesn't mean that people can't do nice things for each other.

Later, I realized both the op and the message I responded (also mine post too) are generalizing women behavior in relationships. I think op is assuming that women don't do much in return. I don't know how correct it is but someone also told me that I can ve sex with lots of women if I do all those things on the list ...

 

[rootX]

Good point Dale. Another issue is that a child of 15 is just starting to discover themselves and as they mature, their interests grow and change, their personality "changes/matures". It seems more likely that two people will mature at different rates and their interests will start to change, more often in different directions. The difference in someone at age 15 and age 25 is a lot more noticeable than someone at age 35 and age 45.

There is just a greater risk that two people that meet that young will grow apart due to changes in what they want and like.

I always believed that more I grow, more I would be able to accommodate differences/ other people needs. It is true till now, I am far more tolerant towards the differences than I was before.

I totally agree with Turbo. People shouldn't always consider their own needs in the relationships - there should be lots of understanding, sacrifice, and trust. From my perspective, ideal relationship is giving all of myself to someone else - so, if someone wants me to do this every Tuesday and that every Sunday, I wouldn't have any objection. And, I shouldn't expect anything in return. I am good and safe from unhealthy relationships because I don't do anything on that list and neither try to show off that I am very good/attractive.

 

[Howers]

We're not really being fair to the ladies.
Females:
- Need to look very good.
- Keep weight down.
- Be sensitive and sweet.
- Cook, clean, chores.
- Ward off degrading propositions intimately ( I don't know how else to word it)
- Raise annoying kids.

This is a shallow list, but it is just as ridiculous as saying all men sing and write poetry.