It's a vicious circle.Why do people commit mass shootings?

[MotoH]

There also appears to be a traffic violation for running a red light in May of 1998.

What a lunatic.

 

[Evo]

There also appears to be a traffic violation for running a red light in May of 1998.

What a lunatic.

We're talking about assault.

 

[lisab]

Don't forget the 2002 charges for assault at the International House of Pancakes over a booster seat.

In that incident, she allegedly said, "I am Dr Amy Bishop." I'm just curious, is she well-known in the biology world?

And I mean for her work, not for shooting and assaulting people .

 

[MotoH]

We're talking about assault.

Drivers who run red lights are 15% more likely to either be late for something, or have anger issues.

 

[Frame Dragger]

Apparantly that petition was real, and all of this was coming to a head fairly quickly. Obviously she's impuslive and violent, and she sounds like an innatentive and uninterested teacher. Classic 'stuck in her own head' symptoms. I don't know if I'd call her 'mentally ill' however. Being violent and selfish can be symptoms, but they can just be terrible flaws as well.

 

[Brian_C]

In my opinion, these kinds of disputes could be avoided if universities hired qualified people in the first place. I'm not a biologist, but her publication history prior to joining UAH in 2003 doesn't look impressive at all. In a span of 11 years, she only had five articles in which she was the first author. Something tells me that being a woman and a Harvard graduate gave her a leg up in the hiring process.

 

[Frame Dragger]

In my opinion, these kinds of disputes could be avoided if universities hired qualified people in the first place. I'm not a biologist, but her publication history prior to joining UAH in 2003 doesn't look impressive at all. In a span of 11 years, she only had five articles in which she was the first author. Something tells me that being a woman and a Harvard graduate gave her a leg up in the hiring process.

Interesting, the spree killer (whatever his ideology) at Fort Hood had a very unimpressive... even incompetent record. I think the lesson here is that the model of the male underachiever (read: avg intelligence, moderate income) can be expanded to that same sense of inadequacy leading to anger when confronted with failure in any field. The trick is to recognize the depression, odd behaviour, history of violence (sometimes), incompetence due to lack of focus and drive, and most importantly a quiet or absent affect broken by sudden or violent outbursts.

In the case of Fort Hood, he blogged, and probably talked to some people. In the case of Amy Bishop, the record is clear.

Everyone knows these people...

Everyone knows that one person who could snap.

 

[lisab]

Everyone knows these people...

Everyone knows that one person who could snap.

About two years ago, we fired a very odd guy at my work.

About a year later, I was talking about it with some coworkers. Amazingly, to a person we all admitted that at the time, we each thought there was a good chance he would come back and kill us. No one had said anything about it until that moment.

 

[Frame Dragger]

About two years ago, we fired a very odd guy at my work.

About a year later, I was talking about it with some coworkers. Amazingly, to a person we all admitted that at the time, we each thought there was a good chance he would come back and kill us. No one had said anything about it until that moment.

Not an uncommon story! The only time it's usually told of course, is that small percentage when the person happens to be on that tipping point, does something terrible and makes the news.

For the record, good to see you're alive and well, along with your co-workers!

 

[Gokul43201]

According to the news story, though, "dozens" (which, if it's accurate, has to mean at least 24, right?) of her students didn't bother with this rating site and went directly to the head of the department with a petition against her. I suppose that petition still exists somewhere and the exact number of signatures could be checked. I have no idea how common it might be for students to start a petition like this. I'm not aware it ever happened in my college.

Sounds like sour grapes from lazy students. And I'd be more interested in the arguments presented in the petition, rather than the number of signatures in it.

From the comments posted, it sounds like she set a very high standard, gave tough tests, but put in a lot of effort into helping students - such as scheduling extra classes, helping students outside of class, and having guest lecturers. That, in my book, shows most of the signs of a good teacher.

There may have been plenty of good behavioral reasons to have red-flagged/fired her long ago, but I don't yet buy the argument that she was a bad teacher, especially since it's based entirely on a bunch of students whining about her. As nearly any Homework Helper or Mentor here can attest, the more you refuse to hand out solutions to lazy students, the more likely you are to be the target of whining, complaints and hate mail.

 

[Frame Dragger]

Sounds like sour grapes from lazy students.

From the comments posted, it sounds like she set a very high standard, gave tough tests, but put in a lot of effort into helping students - such as scheduling extra classes, helping students outside of class, and having guest lecturers. That, in my book, shows most of the signs of a good teacher.

There may have been plenty of good behavioral reasons to have red-flagged/fired her long ago, but I don't easily buy the argument that she was a bad teacher, based on a bunch of students whining about her.

...Then again her history of murder, assault, and now multiple murder makes me think we should give the benefit of the doubt to the not-murdering-students. I know, a radical idea, but perhaps one who's time has come. :uhh:

Edit: For clarity's sake, let me expand; people who commit spree killings are not usually going to be functional teachers or people. The closer you get to the crime, the more you can see (in retrospect usually) how detatched the individual was becoming. People may seem fine one day and kill THEMSELVES the next, but spree killers usually resemble the pressure vessles they are. Someone who is constantly distracted, depressed, and enraged is not going to be a good teacher unless they have unique abilities this woman lacked.

 

[Evo]

...Then again her history of murder, assault, and now multiple murder makes me think we should give the benefit of the doubt to the not-murdering-students. I know, a radical idea, but perhaps one who's time has come. :uhh:

Edit: For clarity's sake, let me expand; people who commit spree killings are not usually going to be functional teachers or people. The closer you get to the crime, the more you can see (in retrospect usually) how detatched the individual was becoming. People may seem fine one day and kill THEMSELVES the next, but spree killers usually resemble the pressure vessles they are. Someone who is constantly distracted, depressed, and enraged is not going to be a good teacher unless they have unique abilities this woman lacked.

There is no doubt at this point that this woman had a long history of issues. Her husband knew of all of them, I'd like to know how much he is involved with encouraging her psychosis. He was implicated in the pipe bombing, and I suspect he's the "person of interest" in her getting this gun.

He claimed "yeah she got a gun, but I don't know where she got it or why". Your wife, whose history you know, suddenly gets a gun and you don't ask her anything? I know I would ask basic questions like "where did you buy that?" "what did you buy it for?".

I think they need to be investigating the husband too.

 

[Gokul43201]

...she sounds like an innatentive and uninterested teacher. ...

Uninterested teacher:

"Professor is helpful but the class is super hard! She has classes for extra help since there are so many students in the class."

"This class was great. Bishop makes the class interesting by talking about her research and her friends research. That speaker she had for class was hard to understand but smart. She expects a lot and you need to come to every class and study."

"I am in her lab and her class. She is smart, talks about more stuff than just the book. She let's me sit in her office and study."

"Bishop uses the online stuff, the internet, powerpoint, from the book and some stuff not from the book. If you show up to class and listen to what she tells you what is important and what is not as important you will get an A. Her animations from that anatomy program always crash the laptop(last year). This year her she bought her own laptop."

"Dr. Bishop says she has to teach us about so much so we are ready for nursing classes. It is so much material! But she is nice, helpful and makes it interesting. I like her study day she has before the test."

"Dr. Bishop is a great teacher! She talks about the stuff in the book but then she talks about extra stuff like diseases. This makes the class fun. She's super smart and thinks everyone else is too so sometimes she goes too fast."

"Awesome teacher. She tends to make a lot of tangents but you learn a lot and she's always willing to help you out."

"Mrs Bishop was totally awesome! She made this class fun and entertaining with her great sense of humor. She is always willing to help, and is great at working with students."

"Dr. Bishop is extremely knowledgeable about her field. She is grateful to help, you just have to ask. Her lectures are disorganized, but if you read your book, you'll get an A. I learned alot."​

[quotes from the ratemyprofessor page linked in an earlier post]

She schedules extra help classes, review days before tests, allows students a lot of access to her office time, invites guest lecturers, discusses research in the field, covers material not in the book, and seems to be willing to help anyone that asks for it. Yeah, that sounds like "uninterested" to me.

 

[turbo]

There is no doubt at this point that this woman had a long history of issues. Her husband knew of all of them, I'd like to know how much he is involved with encouraging her psychosis. He was implicated in the pipe bombing, and I suspect he's the "person of interest" in her getting this gun.

He apparently accompanied her to the pistol range very recently. My wife and I practice at the range at least once or twice a year, just to retain proficiency, but if she had a history of aggression, assaults, and odd behavior, I would expect to get some kind of attention from the authorities if she took one of our pistols to work and shot a bunch of co-workers.

 

[Gokul43201]

...Then again her history of murder, assault, and now multiple murder makes me think we should give the benefit of the doubt to the not-murdering-students. I know, a radical idea, but perhaps one who's time has come. :uhh:

She was a violent person who assaulted and murdered people, therefore she must have been a lousy teacher. Besides, none of her petition-signing students were murderers. QED.

Would you also like to put those students that called her a good teacher on a potential murderer watch-list?

 

[Evo]

Why are we dragging this offtopic about teaching abilities?

 

[Gokul43201]

Why are we dragging this offtopic about teaching abilities?

I guess some folks are suggesting that she should have been red-flagged or fired based on reaction to her teaching. So far, I have seen nothing substantive to support the claim that she was a terrible teacher, much less, an uninterested one. Besides, I think there were plenty of much better reasons to red-flag her than her teaching reviews.

 

[Evo]

I guess some folks are suggesting that she should have been red-flagged or fired based on reaction to her teaching. So far, I have seen nothing substantive to support the claim that she was a terrible teacher, much less, an uninterested one.

No, her teaching doesn't seem to be part of her problems.

 

[elect_eng]

Why are we dragging this offtopic about teaching abilities?

My guess is that we are so repulsed by the evil displayed by this person, that anyone with any appreciation of academia instinctively wants to distance themselves from her. If she is a horrible teacher with no ability to do research and publish good scientific work, then we can feel that we have nothing to do with this monster. She becomes the beast from outside that broke in, rather than a representative of the tribe .

 

[cronxeh]

I think I've attempted to address the other side of this issue, but my posts were summarily deleted. You guys are all quick to jump to a conclusion that she either had psychiatric problems, or was just pure evil, while I argued that given the statistics of humanity, perhaps what she did was not abnormal, just immoral.

 

[Frame Dragger]

Uninterested teacher:

"Professor is helpful but the class is super hard! She has classes for extra help since there are so many students in the class."

"This class was great. Bishop makes the class interesting by talking about her research and her friends research. That speaker she had for class was hard to understand but smart. She expects a lot and you need to come to every class and study."

"I am in her lab and her class. She is smart, talks about more stuff than just the book. She let's me sit in her office and study."

"Bishop uses the online stuff, the internet, powerpoint, from the book and some stuff not from the book. If you show up to class and listen to what she tells you what is important and what is not as important you will get an A. Her animations from that anatomy program always crash the laptop(last year). This year her she bought her own laptop."

"Dr. Bishop says she has to teach us about so much so we are ready for nursing classes. It is so much material! But she is nice, helpful and makes it interesting. I like her study day she has before the test."

"Dr. Bishop is a great teacher! She talks about the stuff in the book but then she talks about extra stuff like diseases. This makes the class fun. She's super smart and thinks everyone else is too so sometimes she goes too fast."

"Awesome teacher. She tends to make a lot of tangents but you learn a lot and she's always willing to help you out."

"Mrs Bishop was totally awesome! She made this class fun and entertaining with her great sense of humor. She is always willing to help, and is great at working with students."

"Dr. Bishop is extremely knowledgeable about her field. She is grateful to help, you just have to ask. Her lectures are disorganized, but if you read your book, you'll get an A. I learned alot."​

[quotes from the ratemyprofessor page linked in an earlier post]

She schedules extra help classes, review days before tests, allows students a lot of access to her office time, invites guest lecturers, discusses research in the field, covers material not in the book, and seems to be willing to help anyone that asks for it. Yeah, that sounds like "uninterested" to me.

Very good, you quoted a website, and NOT the petition regarding her classroom behaviour that was given to FACULTY. Here, I can use quotes too!

HUNTSVILLE, Ala. - Students said they signed a petition and complained to no avail about the classroom conduct of a University of Alabama-Huntsville professor accused of killing three colleagues and wounding three others in a shooting rampage at a faculty meeting.

The students upset with biology professor Amy Bishop told The Associated Press they went to university administrators at least three times a year ago, complaining that she was ineffective in the classroom and had odd, unsettling ways.

The students said Bishop never made eye contact during conversations, taught by reading out of a textbook and made frequent references to Harvard University, her alma mater.

I googled that in less time than it took you to write one of your annoyed messages. Give it a shot, it works like a charm, and it keeps you from confusing 'websites' with 'petitions'.

Now, interesting sidenote about Harvard... a friend and colleague of mine is a professor of neurobiology at Harvard, and she apparently had a reputation outside of her department; not a positive one. 'Detatched' came up a lot, and keeping in mind that the friend in question is one of the better psychologists (research: abnormal, spec in schizophrenia and PET/fMRI studies) I know.

Granted, that's anecdotal, and I was trying to pointing out that you seem to have an enormous bias coming out of the gate in favour of believing someone with a history of homocide and other anti-social behaviour from her (late) TEENS. So, feel free to do a little research on this woman and then rip me up one side and down the other AFTER we're talking about the same things. I for instance, never mentioned some silly website.

cronxeh While she surely won't be found mentally ill by LEGAL standards, a person acting in a simply 'immoral' manner would tend to NOT go on a spree. Dr. Bishop had no reasonable manner of escape, which means she likely considered this her LAST act, or was unable to think in those terms. Either way, I think we can conclude that something beyond immorality was at play. Then again, she clearly is not what MOST people think of when the word 'insane' floats thorigh their head.

Again, I can't emphasize how unusual female spree killers are; ESPECIALLY ones who use obviously violent means.

elect_eng Her history of shooting her brother TWICE with a shotgun 'accidentally', assault, and finally multiple murder would seem to indicate that as with the individual at Fort Hood (and most other spree killers), SOMEONE, somewhere... had indications that the person was disturbed or dangerous. That person may well have been unable to make the leap to 'murderer', and reasonably not, but the information was probably there and searching for and examining it is useful in understanding the pathology.

 

[Frame Dragger]

My guess is that we are so repulsed by the evil displayed by this person, that anyone with any appreciation of academia instinctively wants to distance themselves from her. If she is a horrible teacher with no ability to do research and publish good scientific work, then we can feel that we have nothing to do with this monster. She becomes the beast from outside that broke in, rather than a representative of the tribe .

A foolish notion. Spree killers are rare, they just happen to get coverage of a type now that was impossible in the past. 'Running Amok' is a good term to research if you want some early (and primitive) thinking on spree killing.

The issue with spree killers is that unlike sociopaths they're 'signals' are ones shared by MANY people to some degree. A loner disliked by her students? If that made you a killer, there would be a LOT more murder. Aquitted of a previous 'accidental' killing? Well, aquitted says it all right? Violent outbursts around times of stress instead of evidence of healthy (or 'standard' unhealthy menas such as drugs) coping is a HUGE warning sign.

Finally, she didn't make tenure, and this was clearly the straw that made her decide her life was no longer worth living (or at least, not worth preserving in a normal fashion), and that others she felt anger towards HAD to die. People... like to give others some space... some benefit of the doubt... and we HAVE to if we're to live a normal life. People miss tenure, and accidentally kill people. Sometimes good people explode, get some help and get better (without murder).

This is a reflection on one woman who clearly thought in all-or-nothing terms, and was willing to die if it meant she could vent her spleen. That isn't academia... that's humanity in a far end of the bell curve.

EDIT: To be fair, if the students I quoted earlier are to be believed she showed classic signs of a crisis... but then we all know how distant the 'comradarie' of academia can be, don't we? Lack of eye contact, lack of interest in the material, obsession with her 'glory days'... well that could be a lot of people right? Add in the history of violence. Now we have a warning sign, whether academicians here like that or not. Presumably USPS workers were not thrilled at 'going postal', so maybe the teachers and researchers here can relax for a minute and rememer that this is about the people who were hurt, not your 'tribe'

The truth is she is part of our tribe; this is a HUMAN 'thing' not a teacher/postal-worker/IT guy, etc... etc.. problem. This is a uniquely human problem, and she IS frightening. Dumpy middle-aged women teaching in Alabama, according to 'the script' are not SUPPOSED to blow away 6 people, killing 3, and critically wounding 2! If life can be THAT uncertain and unsafe... and there you have the terrified reaction, even though we're all far more likely to die on our way to pick up some groceries in the care. Everyone is terrified that their kids will be kidnapped by a stranger, when really it's a friend or relative likely to abuse or kidnap. The story repeats.

 

[zoobyshoe]

Sounds like sour grapes from lazy students. And I'd be more interested in the arguments presented in the petition, rather than the number of signatures in it.

From the comments posted, it sounds like she set a very high standard, gave tough tests, but put in a lot of effort into helping students - such as scheduling extra classes, helping students outside of class, and having guest lecturers. That, in my book, shows most of the signs of a good teacher.

There may have been plenty of good behavioral reasons to have red-flagged/fired her long ago, but I don't yet buy the argument that she was a bad teacher, especially since it's based entirely on a bunch of students whining about her. As nearly any Homework Helper or Mentor here can attest, the more you refuse to hand out solutions to lazy students, the more likely you are to be the target of whining, complaints and hate mail.

Actually, I assumed the petition to be pointing out something "behavioral" about her that was bothering the students and which would account for why so many apparently banded together when this doesn't seem to happen in the case of teachers who are merely rigorous.

The students upset with biology professor Amy Bishop told The Associated Press they went to University of Alabama in Huntsville administrators at least three times a year ago, complaining that she was ineffective in the classroom and had odd, unsettling ways.

The students said Bishop never made eye contact during conversations, taught by reading out of a textbook and made frequent references to Harvard University, her beloved alma mater.

"We could tell something was off, that she was not like other teachers," said nursing student Caitlin Phillips.

What was significant to me were the words "odd", "unsettling", "off" and the phrase "not like other teachers".

It has to be borne in mind that most students are getting themselves into major debt and it can be infuriating to be confronted with a teacher who makes learning unnecessarily more difficult by virtue of an approach so eccentric it requires effort to decipher. I assumed, correctly or not, that is mainly what the petition was addressing.

A previously interviewed student said:

Andrea Bennett, a sophomore majoring in nursing, described Bishop as being "very weird" and "a really big nerd."

"She's well-known on campus, but I wouldn't say she's a good teacher. I've heard a lot of complaints," Bennett said. "She's a genius, but she really just can't explain things."

 

[zoobyshoe]

There is no doubt at this point that this woman had a long history of issues. Her husband knew of all of them, I'd like to know how much he is involved with encouraging her psychosis. He was implicated in the pipe bombing, and I suspect he's the "person of interest" in her getting this gun.

He claimed "yeah she got a gun, but I don't know where she got it or why". Your wife, whose history you know, suddenly gets a gun and you don't ask her anything? I know I would ask basic questions like "where did you buy that?" "what did you buy it for?".

I think they need to be investigating the husband too.

Just to clarify, the "person of interest" was of interest to the case in general, not to the issue of where she got the gun. I think it's clear now that the "person of interest" cited in the original story must have been her husband, simply because he would be most likely to know what was going on in her mind. There was no indication the police suspected he'd procured the weapon.

I don't see him as an active accomplice, just an enabler offering rationalizations for her behavior.

The question remains, though: just where did she get the gun?

 

[Gokul43201]

Very good, you quoted a website, and NOT the petition regarding her classroom behaviour that was given to FACULTY. Here, I can use quotes too!

Because there isn't a link that provides a transcript of the petition. Which is why I specifically stated that I'd be more interested to see the contents of the petition rather than count the signatures on it.

I googled that in less time than it took you to write one of your annoyed messages. Give it a shot, it works like a charm, and it keeps you from confusing 'websites' with 'petitions'.

Oh, great guru of Googling, pray tell us where the word "uninterested" (or anything resembling it) appears in that little nugget of yours?

Besides, the "website" I quoted from tells a lot more about what the students thought of the Prof than the half sentence description of the petition from your googling.

Now, interesting sidenote about Harvard... a friend and colleague of mine is a professor of neurobiology at Harvard, and she apparently had a reputation outside of her department; not a positive one. 'Detatched' came up a lot, and keeping in mind that the friend in question is one of the better psychologists (research: abnormal, spec in schizophrenia and PET/fMRI studies) I know.

Brilliant logical work! A friend and a colleague who works at Harvard is detached, therefore ...

Here's another interesting sidenote about Harvard - I work there. Now could you please divine for me how many people I am planning to assault and murder?

Granted, that's anecdotal, and I was trying to pointing out that you seem to have an enormous bias coming out of the gate in favour of believing someone with a history of homocide and other anti-social behaviour from her (late) TEENS.

Show me where I said anything that indicated I was believing her. The people I am believing are the students that did well in her class, rather than those that didn't. Talk about bias!

And how on Earth are you pointing out some non-existent bias in me by providing us an anecdote about someone that works at Harvard?

So, feel free to do a little research on this woman and then rip me up one side and down the other AFTER we're talking about the same things. I for instance, never mentioned some silly website.

Who cares that you didn't - it's irrelevant. You posited that she was an "uninterested" teacher when there's not a shred of evidence for it, and moreover, there's tons of evidence against it.

That's the only point of contention here (in this offshoot argument): whether or not she was "uninterested" as you claim. You're muddying the waters with anecdotes about colleagues that have absolutely nothing to do with this. And your wizardry at googling hasn't produced anything to support your assertion of an uninterested teacher either.

 

[zoobyshoe]

In that incident, she allegedly said, "I am Dr Amy Bishop." I'm just curious, is she well-known in the biology world?

And I mean for her work, not for shooting and assaulting people .

She had just gotten some attention for having invented a better sort of incubator. She was on the cover of a minor biology periodical for that.

I believe, though, the IHOP incident preceded that. Even if it didn't, announcing your own identity as if you're someone important who should be made way for, is pretty grandiose.

 

[Gokul43201]

I believe, though, the IHOP incident preceded that. Even if it didn't, announcing your own identity as if you're someone important who should be made way for, is pretty grandiose.

It's not just grandiose, it's more or less delusional.

 

[elect_eng]

elect_eng Her history of shooting her brother TWICE with a shotgun 'accidentally', assault, and finally multiple murder would seem to indicate that as with the individual at Fort Hood (and most other spree killers), SOMEONE, somewhere... had indications that the person was disturbed or dangerous. That person may well have been unable to make the leap to 'murderer', and reasonably not, but the information was probably there and searching for and examining it is useful in understanding the pathology.

I agree with that, but I'm confused why you directed this comment to me personally. Is this a response to something I said?

 

[elect_eng]

A foolish notion...

I think you took my speculative notion out of context. I was just thinking about (and answering a specific question from evo) why there might be so much chatter about trying to show how bad of a researcher, teacher, scientist, etc. she is. It is just speculation, foolish or otherwise.

 

[Frame Dragger]

Because there isn't a link that provides a transcript of the petition. Which is why I specifically stated that I'd be more interested to see the contents of the petition rather than count the signatures on it.

Oh, great guru of Googling, pray tell us where the word "uninterested" (or anything resembling it) appears in that little nugget of yours?

Besides, the "website" I quoted from tells a lot more about what the students thought of the Prof than the half sentence description of the petition from your googling.

Brilliant logical work! A friend and a colleague who works at Harvard is detached, therefore ...

Here's another interesting sidenote about Harvard - I work there. Now could you please divine for me how many people I am planning to assault and murder?

Show me where I said anything that indicated I was believing her. The people I am believing are the students that did well in her class, rather than those that didn't. Talk about bias!

And how on Earth are you pointing out some non-existent bias in me by providing us an anecdote about someone that works at Harvard?

Who cares that you didn't - it's irrelevant. You posited that she was an "uninterested" teacher when there's not a shred of evidence for it, and moreover, there's tons of evidence against it.

That's the only point of contention here (in this offshoot argument): whether or not she was "uninterested" as you claim. You're muddying the waters with anecdotes about colleagues that have absolutely nothing to do with this. And your wizardry at googling hasn't produced anything to support your assertion of an uninterested teacher either.

You're so onvolved in the rhetoric at this point that you're missing some very obiosu points which Zoobyshoe nicely reiterated. You're either being willfully snippy about citing an ongoing news story as though it were a grant proposal. You're clearly upset, and I have no desire or willingness to be your punching bag, however interesting it is to be unhit amidst your 'flurry'.

I like how you ran with the google theme until the end; it's good that you have no sense of when I'm being sarcastic. I'm glad you couldn't find citations for the petition, but then again... NEWS STORY. Hearsay that's being backed by major networks is a decent standard... not publication in The Lancet.

Your little, 'not grandiose, delusional' bit is another fine example. Grandisity IS delusional. Do we really need to split every hair in this discussion because you want to back up on the notion that her students were just lazy whiners?

I think her history (from age 19+) of violence, both "accidental" and planned is very significant.

elect_eng I see your point, sorry, Gokul43201 has such a way with people that it's rubbing off on me.

As for why I directed that comment at you, I assumed that you felt such a discussion was driving the thread off topic. I'm sorry, you were not clear as to just how that was being done. It may be I misunderstood.

 

[Frame Dragger]

Oh, and Gokul, if you're a teacher who fails to explain the concepts you teach, to the point that students complain directly to faculty on three occasions within one year, COMBINED with her 'reading from the textbook' and lack of eye contact style would seem to indicate a disinterested affect.

EDIT: To clarify, you seem to misunderstand. This person at Harvard, my friend, is not detatched. Re-read what I actually SAID. I wasn't accusing the people of Harvard of planning murder, I was talking about a bit of hearsay from a friend DIRECTLY about her many years ago. That's all. I checked what I wrote, and I honestly don't know how you concluded that I was saying my FRIEND was detatched. Get a grip.

 

[Gokul43201]

Oh, and Gokul, if you're a teacher who fails to explain the concepts you teach, to the point that students complain directly to faculty on three occasions within one year, COMBINED with her 'reading from the textbook' and lack of eye contact style would seem to indicate a disinterested affect.

EDIT: To clarify, you seem to misunderstand. This person at Harvard, my friend, is not detatched. Re-read what I actually SAID. I wasn't accusing the people of Harvard of planning murder, I was talking about a bit of hearsay from a friend DIRECTLY about her many years ago. That's all. I checked what I wrote, and I honestly don't know how you concluded that I was saying my FRIEND was detatched. Get a grip.

I refuse to have to give you a lecture on grammar, in addition to one on logic, so I shall gladly cede this argument to you.

All the students that did badly in her class and implied that she was a disinterested teacher are spot on; the others that studied hard, did well, and said that she was extremely helpful were probably just a bunch of little liars.

You can have the last word, if you want it. I have nothing more I wish to add.

 

[ideasrule]

Edit: For clarity's sake, let me expand; people who commit spree killings are not usually going to be functional teachers or people.

I can't count how many times (non-fictional) crime shows or crime stories start with "the quiet, peaceful town of XXX was shocked that one of their most trusted citizens murdered 8 people..." or "the murderer was described as 'nice' and 'mild-mannered' by his neighbors" or "his neighbors were in a state of utter disbelief". Mass murderers are NOT who they seem to be; many are kind, warm-hearted, compassionate, dedicated, and talented for all except the 2 hours in which they decide to commit murder.

The people who try to look for "signs" in Amy Bishop NOW are a bit like crackpots who say Nostradamus predicted X or Y after X and Y have already happened. It's very telling that all the media sensationalism hasn't turned up any relatives, psychologists, co-workers, or anybody else who said Bishop was mentally unstable before the killing spree occurred.

 

[drankin]

Does anyone believe this was preventable somehow? If so, how?

 

[MotoH]

Does anyone believe this was preventable somehow? If so, how?

A time machine would probably have been the best bet for stopping this.