My RunIN with the JackBooted Thugs

[ray b]

went to JAIL monday for calling 911 after a JACKBOOTED THUG PULL A GUN ON ME

I was trying to unload my car at the dock to row out to my boat
as I pulled into the front of the dock I saw an unmarked white van parked there
so I parked behind it and got out to unload my stuff on the dock

I then noticed these THUGS had handcuffed a local man and the two coasties had NO ID
just a printed T-shirt and blue pants and GUN BELTS as part of a NEW homeland force
that has been VERY FACIST in actions localy so I began to speak to them ABOUT THAT
as I was beginning to get my stuff out of the car
I picked up an OAR to place it on the dock
AND THE JACKBOOTED THUG PULLED HIS GUN AND ORDERED ME TO DROP THE OAR
I was about 20 feet away from him and DIDNOT MAKE ANY ATTEMPT to HIT OR THREATEN HIM
I was just caring the OAR at wast level by my side
so I droped the oar and was ordered to leave the dock where my small boat was docked
at this point I thought I WAS THE ONE ASSALTED

so I got in my car and drove to park the car away from the armed men
thinking about this BS and the THUG with a GUN threating ME and preventing my useing the dock
I desided to call 911 and report HIS ACTIONS that I thought was an ASSALT on ME
so I went to a payphone and spoke to the local cops dispacher
they said they would send an officer
so I waited and watched from about a 100 yards away
in a few minites two local cops showed up and spoke to the coasties
after a while
the the coasties got in their van and drove it away from where they had been parked
sence no cop had came to were I was and I thought the coasties had left
I walked over near the dock but stopped before reaching it and spoke from a distance of about 50 ft to the local cops saying I had called 911
the local cops instructed me to approch them and show ID so I did
I ONLY RETURNED TO THE DOCK BECAUSE THE COPS TOLD ME TO
then I noticed the coasties were still there , they just moved and reparked their van
I was told to wait a minite

after some discusion with the coasties the local cops ARRESTED ME
for Agg Assault on a law inforcesment officer and interfearing with justice
they said because I had RETURNED TO THE DOCK
BUT I only did that because the local cops told me to!
then they searched my car and took the oar and took me to jail under a 17,000 bond to get out
so I had to wait over night to see a Judge the next day
the judge said a oar was NOT a WEAPON so reduced the charge to simple assalt and the bond to 4000 so I paid my ransom and got out
remember no one was hit swong at or threaten EXCPT ME BY THE THUG by A GUN DRAWN AND POINTED AT ME for no good reason

the arrest was a result of my calling 911 to report a thug with a gun
and my attempt to speak with the local cops about it after I thought the coastie who pulled the GUN had left the site
and offical retalliations for dareing to question their illegal actions

 

[Evo]

went to JAIL monday for calling 911 after a JACKBOOTED THUG PULL A GUN ON ME

After reading your story, I'd say you were wrong and they were right.

This was the coastguard?

"I then noticed the THUGS had handcuffed a local man and two coasties with NO ID
just a printed T-shirt and blue pants and GUN BELTS part of a NEW homeland force
that has been VERY FACIST in actions localy so I began to speak to them ABOUT THAT

I hope you realize how dumb that was. You come across as a hot head that failed to excersize common sense. You did interfere with an arrest in progress.

Although they were definitely within their rights to have you arrested, the charge seems a bit extreme, but I have a feeling from your post that you were being beligerant. You brought it on yourself. You do realize that you are also guilty of misusing 911 and that alone can get you arrested.

I hope that you learn how to control your temper if you have to go to court.

 

[ray b]

I only reported the facts
a man claiming to be a coastie in a T-shirt pulled a GUN and POINTED IT At ME
to the 911 people

yours is part of a VERY DANGERIOUS MIND SET that the PIGS DO NO WRONG
and YOU SHOULD NEVER QUESTION OR REPORT THEIR ACTIONS

THAT IS A VERY QUICK WAY DOWN A SLIPERY SLOPE

REMEMBER I DID NOTHING BECAUSE I WAS NOT A JEW?
reread that and think about it

 

[DaveC426913]

I'm tellin' ya. Come to Canada.

We believe that 'free nation' still means something.

 

[Moonbear]

ray b, if you saw them in the midst of an arrest, but saw nothing of what happened prior to that, how do you think your interference was anything but interference? If you were concerned they were not really coast guard (I'm assuming that's what you mean by "coasties") by their uniforms, standing around asking them questions and getting in the way was not the appropriate action anyway. Had you simply called 911 for that reason, just to get some uniformed police out to confirm this was a legitimate arrest, or if you witnessed someone beating the person in handcuffs, something that drastic, and then stayed out of the way, that would have seemed reasonable. However, to have started asking questions when they needed to be focusing on the person in custody is dangerously distracting to them as well as you. You saw they had someone in custody and clearly by talking to them, in whatever tone you may have taken (your tone here doesn't suggest you were likely showing much respect for them), would have been aware they were in the process of making an arrest, and they knew that. Because you continued to approach in their direction with an oar after this, they have no way to know if you intended to use it or not if you were getting in their face about making an arrest. It is safer for them to stop you and have you drop it and walk away before you get close enough to be a threat to them.

You also could have reported their actions after the fact. It did not require calling 911 from what you described. The fact that you refer to them as "pigs" already tells me your lack of respect for those in uniform.

From what you have shared here, I agree with Evo, there were probably multiple reasons they could have arrested you, so you may have gotten off easy they didn't charge you with ALL of them.

 

[chroot]

Get a grip, man. You had no idea what the coast guard men were actually doing! What if the man they had in handcuffs was stealing, vandalizing, or killing people? What if he was trying to steal your boat? You had no idea what was actually happening, yet you immediately sided against the coast guard, then attempted to get in their way.

Even if you think the coast guard generally abuses their authority, walking into an arrest situation (which is already necessarily tense) of which you know nothing about is a very bad idea, simply because you know nothing about it.

And no, I do not generally side with "pigs." Yes, I generally think law enforcement does routinely abuse authority. However, the appropriate way to voice such concerns is not to walk into the middle of a arrest and cause them additional stress! The police are human, too, and I totally respect every single method they use to ensure their own personal safety. The coast guard men had no idea who you were, what kind of weapons you might or might not have been carrying, or what your intent was. It's entirely possible that you were a partner with the man they already had handcuffed, and your intention was to walk up and shoot them both in the face. Since they cannot know what your real intention was in walking into the scene, they must assume the worst for the sake of their own well-being.

Besides, this is not a big deal! Some man got handcuffed! Not beaten to the ground, not held in a chokehold, not shot needlessly -- just handcuffed! Handcuffing is usually not an act of offense, it's an act of defense, and I have no problem with policemen defending themselves.

The proper way to sort this kind of thing out is at the police station, or the courtroom -- not in the heat of passion in the middle of an arrest. Your actions were absolutely out-of-line, and I'm happy to hear they dealt with you appropriately.

- Warren

 

[ray b]

the man had a small bag of suger in his pocket for his bosses coffee on the job
this is the typical harrassment type BS the coasties are up to currently
searching ordinary locals going about there private biz not once but over and over for the last few months

they are too chicken to go to bad parts of the area or look for the real crimes
so they just sit in the dock parking lot board to death bothering everyone who doesnot look rich because they can and no-one will standup to them :yuck:
we are tired of them and their BS

 

[chroot]

Then call your mayor, or the coast guard, and speak to someone with some power to actually change the way the coast guard is operating around your dock. Taking things "into your own hands" by trying to harrass them is, as you've already discovered, a bad idea. There are better ways to handle things.

If you have information about real crimes being committed (not just "oh yeah, down that-a-way there are some REAL shady types), tell them. Work with them, and they will not only serve your area better, but they'll treat everyone there better, too. If you see them often, befriend them; they're people too. Learn their names and say hello to them. As crazy as it sounds, you might even consider offering them a cup of coffee and explaining your grief to them, in proper, calm language.

- Warren

 

[loseyourname]

You really shouldn't have called 911, either. 911 is set up specifically for emergencies and you were not in the midst of an emergency. From the info you have given, neither you nor the man being handcuffed was in any danger. There are proper ways to file grievances and clogging up an emergency line so that real people in real danger cannot get through is not the way do to it.

By the way, why are all of your posts truncated at the ends of the lines like that? No line ever goes all the way to the right side of the text box. The same thing happens to Tournesol. What causes that?

 

[russ_watters]

So, chalk that up to lessons learned:

1. Don't call 911 unless you are in the middle of a real emergency.
2. Don't interfere with police (military or otherwise) business.
3. Police (military or otherwise) don't have to be in a police uniform to be on duty and making an arrest.
4. Learn to let things go. If you had just let it go(several things), you wouldn't have gone to jail.
5. (related to 4) Don't be confrontational. Be utterly respectful - subservient, even. And that does not just apply to police or other authority figures.

 

[ray b]

So, chalk that up to lessons learned:

1. Don't call 911 unless you are in the middle of a real emergency.
2. Don't interfere with police (military or otherwise) business.
3. Police (military or otherwise) don't have to be in a police uniform to be on duty and making an arrest.
4. Learn to let things go. If you had just let it go(several things), you wouldn't have gone to jail.
5. (related to 4) Don't be confrontational. Be utterly respectful - subservient, even. And that does not just apply to police or other authority figures.

or be a good GERMAN the party knows best
well we saw how that went down

the price of freedom is high
only those who fight for it deserve to keep it

 

[chroot]

Understanding the appropriate place to voice one's concern over law enforcement does not make one a German, a nazi, a fascist, or even a conservative.

As I have already said, I agree with you that police often abuse their authority, and I don't condone it at all. I'm probably as liberal as they come on the topic, in fact. (Don't get me started on the California Highway Patrol.) On the other hand, I am capable of understanding that policemen are also human beings, and have a right to protect themselves. Their work is dangerous, and most of their apparently-offensive actions are really wholly defensive.

You presented yourself to them as a threat, and they treated you, necessarily, as a threat. Good for them.

- Warren

 

[russ_watters]

...a German, a nazi, a fascist, or even a conservative.

How can I possibly let this go? :yuck:

 

[chroot]

How can I possibly let this go? :yuck:

Have you not noticed my dry wit yet?!

- Warren

 

[Moonbear]

LOL! Just when you think you know who your friends are.

 

[member 5645]

i woudl normally be very sympathetic to your cause. However, the over usage of 'Jackbooted' and 'thugs', instead of simply explaining the facts, makes me believe there's
1>more to this story
2>bias in your version

 

[Zantra]

well if they correctly identified themselves as coast guard and you didn't turn around and leave then and there, they were within their legal right to arrest you, and you should have heeded their warning. If they didn't correctly identify themselves then they broke the law. It's that simple, case closed.

You can talk about abuse of power or conspiracy if you want, but from a legal standpoint, it sounds like you are the guilty party.

 

[Moonbear]

I have a few more things to point out as I've read the accounting over again. ray b begins by saying they were coast guard but had no ID. So long as they had identified themselves to the person they were arresting, there is no reason they need to display their ID to anyone else. How would you know they have no ID on them? Does this mean while they were in the middle of their arrest, you were asking them to show you ID? That's certainly interferring.

You then seem to be claiming you had some doubts about them being Coast Guard because they were wearing a uniform consisting of a t-shirt, yet, you did seem to know they were Coast Guard, and you claim you've seen them in the area before, so you do know they patrol that area. And, if you are out on a boat often, and in the area often, you would know that the Coast Guard does wear t-shirts as part of their uniform, not at all unlike cops who patrol on bicycles also often wear t-shirts with the printed logo rather than a uniform less suited for their activities. In other words, you contradict your own statement.

Then, in your later reply, you state that the person being arrested was arrested for having a bag of sugar in his pocket. Now, how is it that you learned this if you knew nothing of what was going on? Perhaps it was, perhaps he was wrongly arrested because they thought that sugar was an illegal drug, in which case, he has his own recourse to file a complaint, and if you had stood back and not interferred, you could have made a credible witness to his treatment during the arrest if he needed that. However, if that's just what that guy told you, do you really know that's what he was arrested for? Perhaps he's claiming that, but that bag did contain illegal substances, or maybe the bag had nothing to do with the arrest at all, and was just bagged as added evidence when they searched his pockets during the arrest and weren't sure what it was. Regardless, at the time of the arrest, you had no way of knowing.

As was pointed out, it very well could have been YOUR boat he had been caught trying to steal.

If you thought there was a problem, nobody is saying you needed to keep it to yourself, we're saying there are proper channels to follow to file a formal complaint and have them investigated. Calling 911 is not part of those proper channels.

I do have to address the whole "cops are pigs" attitude here though. I have relatives who are cops, and that means at family gatherings, I run into their other friends who are cops as well. I will vouch for them that they are real people with tough jobs. Yes, there are cops who abuse their authority, or are just plain bad cops, but it's not as bad as what the nightly news will lead you to believe. For the most part, they have very good hearts and go into it genuinely wanting to help protect the public and get the bad guys off the streets. However, in that line of work, they see a LOT of horrible things, and spend every day exposed to the worst side of human nature. It is stressful and a real struggle for them to not let this jade their view of all people. Divorce rates are high among them, mostly because they just close up within themselves at home...they don't do a job you can talk about around the dinner table with the wife and kids. Some do snap under the pressure.

Anything you can do to make them more assured you are not a threat to them can go a long way if they don't know who you are. They are used to be confronted by people all the time, have come to expect it and react to it. They are braced to have knives or guns pulled on them, or any other weapon. They have families they want to go home to and that they need to provide for, and don't want to risk being killed by some hothead. When you realize they are people, just like anyone else, and have a tough job to do, and get a lot of criticism for it, even when they're doing a good job at it, it makes it easier to see things through their eyes.

People get curious when the see someone being arrested, but stand back, don't distract them from their job, don't suddenly reach into your pocket or glove compartment for something, do what you can to let them do their job without worrying you might be a threat too. Remember, adrenaline may still be running high for them, making them even a little more twitchy, if it was a difficult arrest or weapons were involved.

These are good things to keep in mind even for something as routine as a traffic stop. Do you know that just a smile and "hello sir" can go a long way toward softening their attitude and reminding them that there are people in the world who don't hate them for their job? Taking extra steps, like flicking on the interior light of the car if it's night so they can clearly see you helps to assure them you aren't up to anything either. Getting defensive only suggests to them you have something to be defensive about, right or wrong.

But, hey, you'll have your day in court.

 

[misskitty]

well if they correctly identified themselves as coast guard and you didn't turn around and leave then and there, they were within their legal right to arrest you, and you should have heeded their warning. If they didn't correctly identify themselves then they broke the law. It's that simple, case closed.

You can talk about abuse of power or conspiracy if you want, but from a legal standpoint, it sounds like you are the guilty party.

They may not have been able to idenitfiy themselves as Coast Guard. Mainly for the fact that they may have been working under cover and identifing themselves could have put them in more danger then they were already in.

Ray, you did interfere with the arrest they were trying to make. They were within their rights of pulling a gun on you because how would they know you weren't packing? I mean come on.

If you were so upset that they had pulled a gun on you, why didn't you call the local police instead of 911. Moonbear (or Evo, I don't remember who...sorry ) is right in saying you misused the 911 line. You weren't in dire need for medical attention or police assistance. You should have stepped back and assessed the situation more carefully.

By the way, Russ and Warren supporting the actions taken by the police doesn't make them Nazis. Nor does it mean that they hate you because you're Jewish. Its a moot and irelevent point in the conversation. I'm agree with Russ and Warren, the police were totally within their rights to arrest you and charge you with assault. I'm glad they dealt with you accordingly. You don't have to hit someone to be charged with assault.

Read the definition of assault. Its the second definition. This might clear up any confusion of why they arrested you. Or at least part of it.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=assault

 

[misskitty]

I do have to address the whole "cops are pigs" attitude here though. I have relatives who are cops, and that means at family gatherings, I run into their other friends who are cops as well. I will vouch for them that they are real people with tough jobs. Yes, there are cops who abuse their authority, or are just plain bad cops, but it's not as bad as what the nightly news will lead you to believe. For the most part, they have very good hearts and go into it genuinely wanting to help protect the public and get the bad guys off the streets. However, in that line of work, they see a LOT of horrible things, and spend every day exposed to the worst side of human nature. It is stressful and a real struggle for them to not let this jade their view of all people.

Police officers and military personel do this job because no one else will. They work to ensure your safety and the safety of the general public. They are good people who have a tough job, but they do it out of love and service to protect you. It is very unfortunate that they see half the things they see. People in this line of work have families just like you or I do. They also have one of the most dangerous occupations around. They say good-bye to their families to leave for work in the morning and I can assure you, maybe once in a while or over the course of the day, their spouse wonders if they'll come home. It takes a strong and brave person to do what they do.

Now I'm not saying there aren't bad police officers, because there are. It happens, their human. Just like you. All you can do as a citizen is be aware of your rights and how to exercise them within the confines of the law.

 

[misskitty]

Edit: I forgot to add, let them do there job. Moonbear, I quoted you because I fully agree with you. I forgot to say that.

 

[Shadow]

I only reported the facts
a man claiming to be a coastie in a T-shirt pulled a GUN and POINTED IT At ME
to the 911 people

yours is part of a VERY DANGERIOUS MIND SET that the PIGS DO NO WRONG
and YOU SHOULD NEVER QUESTION OR REPORT THEIR ACTIONS

THAT IS A VERY QUICK WAY DOWN A SLIPERY SLOPE

If dangerous means logical...

 

[misskitty]

It might be advisable that no one try to complete that phrase. I'm sure we (being the brilliant and creative group of people we are) could come up with some pretty scary endings.

 

[shmoe]

Ray, you did interfere with the arrest they were trying to make. They were within their rights of pulling a gun on you because how would they know you weren't packing? I mean come on.

Drawing the gun seems very excessive. I believe if an rcmp officer (here in Canada) pulls his gun on someone, there's going to be a bunch of paperwork to fill out. The firearm is supposed to be a last resort here. I'd be willing to wager that in most of the cases when the firearm is drawn, there's going to be an arrest shortly. They aren't going to use it to just chase away a guy with an oar, they'll use it to detain him. I mean if he seemed dangerous enough to draw a gun on why would you let him walk away? Maybe it's different in the states, but this seems wrong to me. Even if he was belligerent or threating, why the heck would they let him walk away when the opportunity was there to detain him?

That said, ray b should have just walked away. If it seemed like a dodgey operation to him, calling 911 immediately and informing them is the way to go. The cops should be able to contact the coast guard to see if it's a legit operation easily enough.

 

[Janitor]

... Nor does it mean that they hate you because you're Jewish. Its a moot and irelevent point in the conversation...

I don't think Ray is necessarily Jewish. He is referring to an item that shows up now and then in editorials. I can't remember exactly how it goes, but it is along the lines of: "They came to arrest David because he was a Jew. I did nothing to stop them because I am not a Jew. Then they came to arrest..." They name other sorts of people. The thing ends with, "Then they came to arrest me."

 

[misskitty]

I don't think Ray is necessarily Jewish. He is referring to an item that shows up now and then in editorials. I can't remember exactly how it goes, but it is along the lines of: "They came to arrest David because he was a Jew. I did nothing to stop them because I am not a Jew. Then they came to arrest..." They name other sorts of people. The thing ends with, "Then they came to arrest me."

My mistake. I took his comment mean exactly what it said. My apologies.

 

[Moonbear]

Drawing the gun seems very excessive. I believe if an rcmp officer (here in Canada) pulls his gun on someone, there's going to be a bunch of paperwork to fill out. The firearm is supposed to be a last resort here. I'd be willing to wager that in most of the cases when the firearm is drawn, there's going to be an arrest shortly. They aren't going to use it to just chase away a guy with an oar, they'll use it to detain him. I mean if he seemed dangerous enough to draw a gun on why would you let him walk away? Maybe it's different in the states, but this seems wrong to me. Even if he was belligerent or threating, why the heck would they let him walk away when the opportunity was there to detain him?

I think some of this is just the difference between law enforcement training in the US and Canada. There would be paperwork if the gun was fired, but not just for drawing it. They were already busy with one person in custody, so, without backup on the way, you don't take chances of the situation escalating out of control. The oar was a potential weapon in this situation, so the main consideration is to disarm him. Had he resisted at that point, he would have been arrested far more quickly, but at the time, as long as he dropped the "weapon" and got out of the way, they were going to continue focusing on the suspect in custody.

There's a good chance that if they had more back-up already there, he might have been arrested more promptly once they thought he was a possible threat. Or, at the least, he would have found himself sitting on the ground in handcuffs, cooling his heels until they were done with the other suspect. Since he called the cops himself, let the cops arrest him. It may have also been a jurisdictional issue. While the Coast Guard may have been arranging to transport the suspect, he may have actually been taken into custody on the water. Once on shore, the Coast Guard may not have had the authority to arrest someone else, and needed to wait for the local cops to arrive to handle that. If he hadn't called the cops himself, he might have gotten a lucky break.

 

[misskitty]

That said, ray b should have just walked away. If it seemed like a dodgey operation to him, calling 911 immediately and informing them is the way to go. The cops should be able to contact the coast guard to see if it's a legit operation easily enough.

He never should have been there at all. Especially if he saw them from his car.

I was trying to unload my car at the dock to row out to my boat as I pulled into the front of the dock I saw an unmarked white van parked there so I parked behind it and got out to unload my stuff on the dock. I then noticed these THUGS had handcuffed a local man and the two coasties had NO ID just a printed T-shirt and blue pants and GUN BELTS

Once he saw these guys, he should have left. It would have been a wiser decision to have NEVER GOTTEN INVOLVED. Once he made the decision to speak to them, he was interfereing with their arrest and he was unloading his car...how was the guard supposed to know he wasn't going to pull out a gun or throw something at him to destract the other guard long enough for the person being arrested to act? By letting Ray leave after pulling a gun on him, he was preventing any further involvment on Ray's part as well as any further association with the arrest.

 

[shmoe]

He never should have been there at all. Especially if he saw them from his car.

I certainly agree with this.

C'mon though, is it common for cops to chase people away with their firearms? Even if there were only two coast guard guys there and they had one guy handcuffed so he needed attention, if someone is considered potentially dangerous enough that you feel necessary to threaten them with deadly force, you'd think that the free coast guard guy would have held ray there. I mean, what if there's 2 guys robbing a store and only two cops show up? One gets detained and the other shooed away by waving your pistol around because two cops are incapable of detaining two criminals at once?

As to a jurisdictional issue, if they don't have the right to arrest someone due to location, do they still have the right to pull their gun out and aim it at them? Wouldn't a private citizen get in trouble if he started waving his gun around at someone '20 feet away' carrying an oar (not an out of place object at a dock), even if they were belligerant?

I'm not discounting the possibility that they may have been threatened by ray, his mouth, and his oar. I just don't understand how someone can be dangerous enough that you need to pull your gun, yet not dangerous enough that they don't need to be arrested immediately. Anyways, we only have one biased version of the story so it's tough to judge exactly what happened. But somethings seems seriously messed up if cops pull their guns out at the drop of an oar. Do they also use their guns to open beer cans? Turn out lights?

 

[Moonbear]

Anyways, we only have one biased version of the story so it's tough to judge exactly what happened.

I believe this is the key issue.

 

[chroot]

C'mon though, is it common for cops to chase people away with their firearms?

We also only know half of the story. It's entirely possible ray b is simply marginalizing his actions. He may have been shouting threatening things, brandishing the oar, god knows what else. The tone of his later posts likely indicates he was a lot more aggressive than he has made himself out to be in his original post.

- Warren

 

[Bartholomew]

An oar is not a potential weapon. It's too long and heavy. The only way you could hurt someone with an oar is if they didn't notice you and you managed to clock them on the back of the head with the one swing you would be able to make. Once you swing once with an oar, it's too heavy to swing again for several seconds, and you can't swing it very fast or with much accuracy (because it is so long). If someone was trying to hurt me, I'd rather he attacked me with an oar than with his bare hands.

 

[shmoe]

We also only know half of the story. It's entirely possible ray b is simply marginalizing his actions. He may have been shouting threatening things, brandishing the oar, god knows what else. The tone of his later posts likely indicates he was a lot more aggressive than he has made himself out to be in his original post.

- Warren

Absolutely. I have no problems whatsoever with law enforcement using or threatening to use deadly force if they feel it's the only way to ensure the public (or their own) safety. My confusion is what happened after the drawing of the firearm and why he wouldn't have been arrested immediately if the gun needed to be drawn. Unfortunately we don't seem to have a video tape of the event.

 

[Bartholomew]

Also I think a little aggression now would be fairly expectable given his situation, if he acted only as he said.

 

[Evo]

Absolutely. I have no problems whatsoever with law enforcement using or threatening to use deadly force if they feel it's the only way to ensure the public (or their own) safety. My confusion is what happened after the drawing of the firearm and why he wouldn't have been arrested immediately if the gun needed to be drawn. Unfortunately we don't seem to have a video tape of the event.

They had no desire to arrest Ray, only to get him to leave the premise peacefully, while being prepared to act if his intents were not peaceful. This makes perfect sense.

It is pretty standard for a law enforcement officer in the US to draw a weapon in a potentially dangerous (unknown) situation. This does not mean they intend to use it.

When my youngest daughter was 2, her day care center told them how to dial 911 in the event of an emergency. I was taking a shower and suddenly I heard shouts "police officer, police officer" coming from my bedroom. I opened the shower door and looked into the barrel of a gun pointed directly at me.

After getting a towel, we pieced what happened together. My 2 year old had decided to test calling 911. When the operator answered, she froze and wouldn't say anything. The operator hearing only breathing assumed the worst and dispatched officers to my house. The officers, not knowing the situation were prepared for the worst.

I found out from my elderly next door neighbor that the officers had pulled up outside my house while she was outside hers and told her to run for cover (incase it was a bad situation) she sprained her knee running down the street.

What I am saying is law enforcement officers enter every unknown situation as a potentially deadly situation. If they don't they are risking their lives and the lives of innocent bystanders. The key here is for the officers not to over react and shoot.