Question about a boundary-value problem (electrostatics)

In summary, the conversation is discussing the use of Laplacian for polars in solving a potential problem involving a wedge shaped metallic conductor. The problem is solved using separation of variables and Dirichlet boundary conditions. However, there are some issues with the solution, including the lack of a unique solution and potential for the solution to be constant everywhere. This is due to the limitation of only using powers of r in the solution for the radial component. It is suggested to revisit the separation of variables process to find a more suitable solution.
  • #1
Sum Guy
21
1
Laplacian for polars:

$$\frac{1}{r}\frac{\partial}{\partial r}\left( r\frac{\partial \phi}{\partial r}\right) + \frac{1}{r^{2}}\frac{\partial^{2} \phi}{\partial \theta^{2}} = 0$$

This is in relation to a problem relating to a potential determined by the presence of a wedge shaped metallic conductor (see image).
kajx4g.png

Working through the problem:

$$\phi (r,\theta) = R(r)\psi (\theta )$$ with $$R(r) \propto r^{v}$$ and Dirichlet boundary conditions $$\phi (r,0) = \phi (r,\alpha ) = V_{0}$$

Substituting into the Laplacian:
$$\frac{1}{r}\frac{\partial}{\partial r}\left( rvr^{v-1}\psi (\theta)\right) + \frac{1}{r^2}r^{v}\psi^{''}(\theta )$$
$$ = r^{v-2}\left( \psi^{''}(\theta ) + v^{2}\psi (\theta )\right) = 0$$
Therefore
$$\psi^{''}(\theta ) + v^{2}\psi (\theta ) = 0$$
Solution is of the form
$$\psi (\theta) = Acos(v\theta ) + Bsin(v\theta )$$
Applying BCs:
$$\phi (r,\theta ) = r^{v}\left(Acos(v\theta ) + Bsin(v\theta )\right)$$
$$\phi (r,0) = V_0 \rightarrow A = V_{0}r^{-v}$$
$$\phi (r,\alpha) = V_0 \rightarrow B = \frac{V_{0}r^{-v}(1-cos(v\alpha ))}{sin(v\alpha )}$$ ...which leaves me with utter crap.

However if we choose V0 such that it is zero then we can reapply the BCs:
$$\phi (r,0) = V_0 \rightarrow A = 0$$
$$\phi (r,\alpha) = V_0 \rightarrow sin(v\alpha ) = 0 \rightarrow v = \frac{n\pi }{\alpha}$$

Resulting in a more pleasant $$\phi(r,\theta ) = Br^{\frac{n\pi }{\alpha}}sin(\frac{n\pi }{\alpha}\theta )$$

So there a few things here that I'm struggling to understand:
If I don't set V0 = 0 then how can I solve the problem?
I should have a unique solution, yet B isn't determined?
How might I correct my solution so that the potential was V0 on the boundaries?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
Notice you're short two boundary conditions to solve this problem. Add in ##\phi(r,\theta) < \infty## everywhere on the region of integration. First, test that condition as r goes to infinity: ##\phi(r,\theta) < \infty## as ##r \to \infty## implies ##\nu \leq 0##. Second, test the same condition as r goes to zero: ##\phi(r,\theta) < \infty## as ##r \to 0## implies ##\nu \geq 0##. Meaning, there's only one term in the solution: the 0th order term, simply ##\phi(r,\theta)=A=V_{0}##, ##\nu = 0##. The reason you didn't see it when you performed separation of variables is because ##\nu = 0## makes ##\frac{\partial}{\partial r}\phi(r,\theta) = 0##. If you had handled the zeroth-order term separately, you would've gotten ##\frac{\partial^{2}}{\partial\theta^{2}}\psi(\theta) = 0##, which implies ##\frac{\partial}{\partial\theta}\psi(\theta) = \frac{\psi(\alpha) - \psi(0)}{\alpha}=\frac{V_{0} - V_{0}}{\alpha} = 0##. That tells you that ##\psi(\theta) = \psi(0) = V_{0}##.
 
  • #3
Twigg said:
Notice you're short two boundary conditions to solve this problem. Add in ##\phi(r,\theta) < \infty## everywhere on the region of integration. First, test that condition as r goes to infinity: ##\phi(r,\theta) < \infty## as ##r \to \infty## implies ##\nu \leq 0##. Second, test the same condition as r goes to zero: ##\phi(r,\theta) < \infty## as ##r \to 0## implies ##\nu \geq 0##. Meaning, there's only one term in the solution: the 0th order term, simply ##\phi(r,\theta)=A=V_{0}##, ##\nu = 0##. The reason you didn't see it when you performed separation of variables is because ##\nu = 0## makes ##\frac{\partial}{\partial r}\phi(r,\theta) = 0##. If you had handled the zeroth-order term separately, you would've gotten ##\frac{\partial^{2}}{\partial\theta^{2}}\psi(\theta) = 0##, which implies ##\frac{\partial}{\partial\theta}\psi(\theta) = \frac{\psi(\alpha) - \psi(0)}{\alpha}=\frac{V_{0} - V_{0}}{\alpha} = 0##. That tells you that ##\psi(\theta) = \psi(0) = V_{0}##.
Thank you for your reply.

Wouldn't that lead to the conclusion that ##\phi (r,\theta ) = V_{0}## everywhere? The solution must have some ##r## dependence..? Shouldn't the solution be of the form that I provided when ##V_{0} = 0##?
 
  • #4
If having the unbounded powers of r weren't an issue, you'd have a superposition of solutions like you got for different values of n, plus the constant ##V_{0}##. There wouldn't be a unique solution because you're still short at least one boundary condition for r at infinity.
 
  • #5
Sum Guy said:
$$\phi (r,0) = V_0 \rightarrow A = V_{0}r^{-v}$$
##A## is required to be a constant in the process of solving by separation of variables. It cannot be a function of ##r##.

When you write ##R(r) = r^{\nu}##, you are not allowing for all possible forms of ##R(r)##.

I suggest you go back through the process of separation of variables to find the differential equation that ##R(r)## must satisfy and see if you can find a solution that is not of the form ##r^{\nu}##.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes Sum Guy

Related to Question about a boundary-value problem (electrostatics)

1. What is a boundary-value problem in electrostatics?

A boundary-value problem in electrostatics involves finding the electric potential or field at points on the surface of a conductor or insulator. It is an important concept in understanding the behavior of electric charges and their interactions.

2. How is a boundary-value problem solved in electrostatics?

In electrostatics, a boundary-value problem is solved by applying the boundary conditions, which are the known values of the potential or field at specific points on the surface. These conditions, along with the equations governing electrostatics, are used to calculate the unknown values at other points on the surface.

3. What are the types of boundary conditions in electrostatics?

The two types of boundary conditions in electrostatics are Dirichlet boundary conditions, where the potential or field is specified at the boundary, and Neumann boundary conditions, where the derivative of the potential or field is specified at the boundary.

4. What is the significance of solving boundary-value problems in electrostatics?

Solving boundary-value problems in electrostatics allows us to understand the distribution of electric potential and fields in different materials and configurations. This knowledge is essential in designing and analyzing devices and systems that use or interact with electric charges.

5. Are there any practical applications of boundary-value problems in electrostatics?

Yes, boundary-value problems in electrostatics have various practical applications, such as in the design of electronic circuits, the analysis of electric fields in capacitors and conductors, and the calculation of forces between charged objects. They are also used in the study of atmospheric electricity and the behavior of plasmas.

Similar threads

  • Advanced Physics Homework Help
Replies
29
Views
182
  • Advanced Physics Homework Help
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • Advanced Physics Homework Help
Replies
10
Views
1K
  • Advanced Physics Homework Help
Replies
13
Views
1K
  • Advanced Physics Homework Help
Replies
0
Views
672
  • Advanced Physics Homework Help
Replies
4
Views
951
  • Advanced Physics Homework Help
Replies
1
Views
449
  • Advanced Physics Homework Help
Replies
3
Views
413
  • Advanced Physics Homework Help
Replies
19
Views
855
  • Advanced Physics Homework Help
Replies
1
Views
808
Back
Top