Resonance of a PWM DC Circuit

[Echo43]

I am experimenting with finding the resonant frequency of water in an attempt to disassociate the H2O bond without high voltage/current and using just tap water - no electrolytes, etc. I know how it works in classic electrolysis but that's not what I am attempting.

Assume that there is a frequency that will disassociate the molecular bond of water. I'm starting with 100khz for example. I have a DC circuit (12 volts) that generates a 50% duty cycle square wave at the given frequency switching a MOSFET. The water container anode is connected to the 12VDC supply and the cathode to the Drain of the MOSFET.

The inductance of the water container is 70uH and the capacitance is 4uF.

I think I need to add a series inductor to the 70uH of the container to achieve a resonant frequency for the circuit?? In other words can I use the standard equation, fr = 1/ (2ℼ √LC) to solve for Total L: Ltotal = Ltobeadded + 70uh?? Thanks

 

[Borek]

Ignoring EE part: frequencies involved in breaking the bond will be in the order of magnitude of the vibrational frequencies of the bonds in molecules, have you tried to estimate them? (hint: there is a reason why spectroscopic methods used by chemists for analysis of substances use wavelengths close to the visible light)

 

[Echo43]

No I haven't yet. But that is a good tip. There are others out there who claimed water can be disassociated as low ~40 Khz and others claim it is in the gigahertz range. I plan on covering all that territory eventually. At the moment, I'm after the best impedance matching method to achieve circuit resonance for a PWM square wave as described above.

 

[hutchphd]

There are others out there who claimed water can be disassociated as low ~40 Khz and others claim it is in the gigahertz range

Unattributed assertions are not the method of scientific communication. Who says this and where and when?
You will realize there are many problems with all of this: but I commend your interest. You might look at how a microwave oven couples gigaHz microwaves to water.

 

[berkeman]

There are others out there who claimed water can be disassociated as low ~40 Khz and others claim it is in the gigahertz range.

As @hutchphd says, that statement is not an acceptable reference at PF. You need to find a published paper in a peer-reviewed journal or a mainstream textbook that describes what you are asking about. That's in the PF rules.

Lacking that, what is your background in chemistry and/or material science? It's good that you want to try to find a better way to separate $H_2O$ into $H_2$ and $O_2$ but it's important for you to have a fundamental understanding of chemistry and material science as part of that quest.

Can you at least post some links to the reading that you have been doing about this? I doubt they are reputable sources, but I'll make an exception in this thread for you right now (shhh, don't tell any of the other Mentors...).

 

[Echo43]

Stan Meyers HHO - he is the father of water resonance and HHO ideas. He has numerous patents with resonance claims at various low frequency's.

https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Stanley+A.+Meyer

Others have modified his ideas. In the end they are all achieving a form of electrolysis that requires more energy in than energy out.

I was hoping this thread didn't devolve into an HHO discussion. I just want to know am I approaching the impendence/inductance matching correctly as stated above.

 

[berkeman]

I was hoping this thread didn't devolve into an HHO discussion.

Same here, since it will get closed pretty quickly. Do you have any technical links to the science behind the idea? I didn't follow the link in your post since it seemed to be about the person and not the math and chemistry behind the concept.

 

[berkeman]

Stan Meyers HHO - he is the father of water resonance and HHO ideas. He has numerous patents with resonance claims at various low frequency's.

https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Stanley+A.+Meyer

Okay, I clicked into your link and so far I'm unimpressed. The only thing that I can find with a quick read that pertains to trying to separate $H-2O$ with some resonance is the first link to a patent application that may have been granted decades ago and was assigned to his wife like she purchased it from him...

 

[hutchphd]

You need to be more specific about the details to enable an informed discussion of the answer you seek. The patent is pretty sparse.
Of course it is perfectly possible to electrolyze water at 0 Hz (DC) so I don't understand your discussion of frequency.

 

[Echo43]

Here is a good synopsis of the leading theories about HHO generation.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339439562_Assembling_a_water_fuel_cell_and_an_HHO_electric_generator#pf38

Yes, you can electrolyze straight off a battery at 0Hz. But the efficiency is bad. And I'm not trying to electrolyze in the sense of using an electrolyte and lots of power. Frequency comes into play if you can hit the water molecule with a frequency that doesn't need much energy but is able to vibrate the bond apart...that's my theory. May be crazy but I'm trying it regardless.

I came to the EE section to ask about the inductance formula as it pertains to a DC series LC circuit as described above.

 

[hutchphd]

I came to the EE section to ask about the inductance formula as it pertains to a DC series LC circuit as described above.

This is covered in any EE textbook: series RLC circuit. You will need to understand it.
But I have no idea what you are trying otimize here. A capacitor filled with bubbles and ions is an odd thing and likely electrically very leaky. There is no guidance as to a desired frequency.
Before you build (design) anything, you need to formulate the question you are attempting to answer.

 

[berkeman]

Here is a good synopsis of the leading theories about HHO generation.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339439562_Assembling_a_water_fuel_cell_and_an_HHO_electric_generator#pf38

Yes, you can electrolyze straight off a battery at 0Hz. But the efficiency is bad. And I'm not trying to electrolyze in the sense of using an electrolyte and lots of power. Frequency comes into play if you can hit the water molecule with a frequency that doesn't need much energy but is able to vibrate the bond apart...that's my theory. May be crazy but I'm trying it regardless.

I came to the EE section to ask about the inductance formula as it pertains to a DC series LC circuit as described above.

Thread closed temporarily so I can read and digest your latest link. Hoping to reopen tonight or tomorrow...

 

[berkeman]

Upon further review, that is crackpot BS:

Assembling a water fuel cell and an HHO electric
generator
Edited by Brendan J. Darrer – 3rd edit
April 2, 2022
This document was taken from Patrick J. Kelly’s Practical Guide to ‘Free-Energy’
Devices:

@Echo43 -- Please send me more reputable links via PM (click my avatar and Start a Conversation), or this thread will remain closed. Lordy.