Speed of light and the Big Bang

In summary, the speed of light is the maximum speed limit in our universe, but it does not constrain how fast space can move. The expansion of the universe cannot be constrained by c anyway. Inflation of universe (distance between us and a galaxy far far away) / (Universal time) is proportional to distance that seems to have no upper limit, so this "speed" does not have an upper limit.
  • #1
Gondur
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Hello,
If the speed of light is the maximum speed limit in our universe, how was the big bang event possible because surely the expansion would have been constrained by the speed of light?
 
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  • #2
Gondur said:
Hello,
If the speed of light is the maximum speed limit in our universe, how was the big bang event possible because surely the expansion would have been constrained by the speed of light?
No, the speed of light constrains how fast things can move IN space. It does not constrain how fast space can move. This is discussed in hundreds of threads here on PF. I suggest a forum search, or just do some basic reading in cosmology.
 
  • #3
Moderator's note: Thread moved to the Cosmology forum.
 
  • #4
Gondur said:
Hello,
If the speed of light is the maximum speed limit in our universe, how was the big bang event possible because surely the expansion would have been constrained by the speed of light?
Short answer: in General Relativity, the speed of light limit is a local limit. It means that nothing can outrun a light ray.

Basically, the curvature of space-time is complicated and mucks up the notion of far-away speed enough that there's no such thing as a speed limit for a far-away object, except that that object can't outrun a light ray in its vicinity.
 
  • #5
phinds said:
No, the speed of light constrains how fast things can move IN space. It does not constrain how fast space can move. This is discussed in hundreds of threads here on PF. I suggest a forum search, or just do some basic reading in cosmology.
And by the way @Gondur I wrote that reply rather hurriedly. It's really not correct to say "how fast space can move" since space doesn't really move. Space is just geometry. A more appropriate way to say it is that recession velocities due to changing geometry of spacetime are not constrained to c.
 
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  • #6
In inflation of universe (distance between us and a galaxy far far away) / (Universal time) is proportional to distance that seems to have no upper limit, so this "speed" does not have an upper limit. It seems like a natural "warp" in sci.-fi. to me.

Multiplying Hubble time = 4.55E17 second by c, such receding speed reaches c at distance D=1.37E26 m, "warp 1".
 
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  • #7
Gondur said:
Hello,
If the speed of light is the maximum speed limit in our universe, how was the big bang event possible because surely the expansion would have been constrained by the speed of light?
The expansion of the universe cannot be constrained by c anyway. The expansion of the universe has dimensions of 1/T and c has dimensions of L/T. You cannot compare the two so there is no way to say that the universe is expanding faster or slower than c.
 
  • #8
sweet springs said:
In inflation of universe (distance between us and a galaxy far far away) / (Universal time) is proportional to distance that seems to have no upper limit, so this "speed" does not have an upper limit. It seems like a natural "warp" in sci.-fi. to me.
Kind of a pointless warp drive since you can't use it to actually go anywhere.

In a region of the universe which currently has a recession velocity of ##2c##, everything in that region has approximately the same recession velocity. It doesn't help a civilization there get from one galaxy to another.

As I stated above, in curved space-time, the speed of light limit is local only. The curvature of space-time itself mucks up the very definition of speed for far-away objects. It's like describing how quickly a car far away on the Earth is moving relative to you: the velocity you pick depends upon a choice of path between yourself and the car. That path is arbitrary: no one path is any better a choice than another. Different path choices will be useful in different contexts. In the human context, we usually use the path the car will actually drive, meaning that a car that is to the East of you might be considered to be moving towards you even if it is also facing East (e.g. if it's traveling towards a freeway on-ramp).

Recession velocities are like that. There are lots of ways of defining how quickly a far-away galaxy is moving compared to us. That very fact makes it impossible for General Relativity to impose a speed limit for far-away objects. The limit is only local.
 
  • #9
kimbyd said:
The limit is only local.
Thanks. Well, there is no clear border between local and universal. I would like to know how much or small in quantity does this receding universe affect to our daily life physics represented by special relativity or maximum "speed" of c, I assume.
 
  • #10
sweet springs said:
Thanks. Well, there is no clear border between local and universal. I would like to know how much or small in quantity does this receding universe affect to our daily life physics represented by special relativity or maximum "speed" of c, I assume.
The expansion of the universe is not a speed so it cannot be limited by c.
 
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  • #11
sweet springs said:
Thanks. Well, there is no clear border between local and universal. I would like to know how much or small in quantity does this receding universe affect to our daily life physics represented by special relativity or maximum "speed" of c, I assume.
No effect at all.

If you want to be pedantic about it, relative speed is only well-defined for objects at the exact same location. You can extend that out some distance by approximating space-time as flat. In a flat space-time, the speed of light limit is universal, so to the extent you can approximate the local space-time to be flat, you can define relative velocities between objects at different locations.

Once that flat space-time approximation starts to break down, so does the ability to uniquely define relative velocity at a distance. How far away you have to be for it to break down depends critically upon the specific geometry of space-time.
 
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Thanks a lot.

Another point view I had is that expanding universe effect is much much smaller than nearby gravity from the Earth, the Sun, the stars and the galaxy and so on. We cannot pick such a small and background effect up from these big noise disturbance.
 
  • #13
sweet springs said:
Thanks a lot.

Another point view I had is that expanding universe effect is much much smaller than nearby gravity from the Earth, the Sun, the stars and the galaxy and so on. We cannot pick such a small and background effect up from these big noise disturbance.
As discussed elsewhere, the effect of the expansion on gravitationally-bound systems is literally zero. There is a small effect from dark energy, but it's too small to be detectable.
 
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  • #14
Thread closed since the OP question has been answered and no further value is being added.
 

1. What is the speed of light and how is it related to the Big Bang?

The speed of light is a fundamental physical constant that represents the maximum speed at which energy, information, and matter can travel through space. It is denoted by the symbol "c" and has a value of approximately 299,792,458 meters per second. In the Big Bang theory, the speed of light plays a crucial role in the expansion of the universe. It is believed that during the early stages of the Big Bang, the universe expanded at a rate faster than the speed of light, but since then, the expansion has slowed down due to the effects of gravity.

2. How was the speed of light determined and is it constant?

The speed of light was first determined by the Danish astronomer Ole Rømer in the 17th century through his observations of the moons of Jupiter. He noticed that the time it took for the moons to orbit the planet varied depending on whether Earth was closer or further away from Jupiter. This led him to conclude that light must have a finite speed. Later, in the late 19th century, the famous experiments by physicists Albert Michelson and Edward Morley confirmed that the speed of light is constant in a vacuum, regardless of the observer's motion. This constant speed is an essential concept in Einstein's theory of relativity.

3. Can anything travel faster than the speed of light?

According to our current understanding of physics, it is impossible for anything to travel faster than the speed of light. This is because as an object approaches the speed of light, its mass increases, and its length contracts, making it more and more difficult to accelerate further. As an object reaches the speed of light, its mass would become infinite, and it would require an infinite amount of energy to accelerate it. Therefore, the speed of light is considered a universal speed limit.

4. How does the speed of light affect our perception of the universe?

The speed of light is incredibly fast, but the universe is vast. This means that light from distant objects takes a significant amount of time to reach us. For example, the light from the Sun takes approximately 8 minutes to reach Earth, and the light from the nearest star takes about 4 years to reach us. This delay means that when we look at the stars in the night sky, we are seeing them as they were in the past. The farther away an object is, the further back in time we are seeing it. Therefore, the speed of light allows us to study the history of the universe by looking at objects that are billions of light-years away.

5. How does the speed of light influence our understanding of the Big Bang?

The speed of light plays a crucial role in our understanding of the Big Bang. As the universe expanded and cooled after the Big Bang, the first particles and atoms formed, and photons (particles of light) were released. These photons have been traveling through the universe since then and can still be observed today as the cosmic microwave background radiation. By studying this radiation, scientists can gather information about the early universe, such as its temperature and composition, and confirm the predictions of the Big Bang theory.

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